Sunday, January 27, 2008

Cannon & Ball, Laurel & Hardy, Dawson And Jenas

Chicken shown also available in yellow with no head

Tottenham did much right, unfortunately the brute strength of the Tourettes riddled Rooney, the pacy parasite Ronaldo not to mention Clothes Peg Salesman of the year Tevez were all too much in the end. From the moment Keane's goal went in the wasps nest was well and truly poked.

But what was depressing was the breaking news that Jermaine Jenas was really a totally plop footballer. His performance against Arsenal is now being investigated by both the FA and UFO Abduction Analysts. His short passes were useless, his failure to score when through on goal an unforgivable shambles.

Beyond depressing... was the moment an Old Trafford cleaner noticed something akin to small piece of a cheese on a bench in the Away dressing room at half time. It transpired it was in fact Michael Dawson's brain. Without this vital organ, Awesome Dawson used the wit and judgement of a turnip when deciding to handle the ball away from Rooney.

Elsewhere, Berbatov wasn't at his best either, with the phrase 'another underhit pass then' being much used in the HH household. Tainio was largely good, Steed battled to little effect. Huddlestone made one foul up but was otherwise good enough. O'Hara was really up against it and displayed real determination. Lee had a good game. Lennon was everywhere and consequently ran out of steam.

Cerny was solid enough, right up until Ronaldo's last goal fizzed under him. Boateng and Defoe came on and made no difference... Keane was permanently too far forward and about 87% of all passes to him were intercepted. Gunter looked the part.

Tactically Tottenham looked sharper than I can remember. Especially defensively. It was this organisation that sheltered us for so long as Tevez snarled and and spat at the gates. But ultimately Spurs couldn't weather the storm. Without King we are fragile. Sure this was Manchester United, but 3-1 puts us in our place.

A respectable enough team performance marred by an all too frequently rubbish Jenas and a piece of defending that was so stupid even Chipperfield's Clown School have dropped it from their syllabus.



waddles mullet said...

Hud, Gunt, O'Hare, Lennon, Prince are all very young, so to go to Old T and give their first team a right go was commendable indeed -- especially with no King, no Chimbo (although I won't be sad to see him leave provided we can get an upgrade at RB) at the back.

If JJ had buried one of his 2 glorious chances it might have been different, but alas, what was Dawson thinking??? And Lee getting out of the way rather than blocking Tevez' shot? C'mon YPL, that's what you're paid to do as a so-called premiership defender!

Let's hope the lads can get a result against Chelski.


vinny said...

Valiant effort considering our makeshift defence.

Unlucky yet again considering Jenas' 2 x one on ones (still at least he got in those positions), Lennon's bad decision to chip in when had 2 players waiting and Berbatov/Wes Brown's shot at the post...we had our chances! so another case of killer instinct lacking again I'm afraid...after the 30 minute mark you could see the lads play reflecting they were starting to get nose bleeds thinking shit we're 1-0 up at Old Trafford and murdering them!

Dawson at fault for both goals, 1st
goal should have trusted Lee to clear it as was in front of Giggs originally, bad decision making. Goal 2 - desperate handball, should have left it to Rooney to try n finish, instead of handing them the game, again very bad split second decision. Suppose it's a case of nervousness in the absence of King again.

Huddles did alright considering, but not the long term solution, so will be good to get a experienced premiership defender in Woodgate in to cover as our King sadly goes missing again.

After the 3rd goal would give Robbo the opportunity in the next game to prove one last time he should be our number one.

Shame!...but complicates our season a little less - 2 possible cups and an almighty effort for a Uefa finish by league position from now on.

Anonymous said...

O'Hara's free kick was a thing of beauty. Pity it was just the wrong side of the post.

Dare I say, if King had played it would've been a different story.

Will Woodgate be the answer? Or is he simply a more expensive Tony G -- someone to keep the team physios employed on a regular basis?

Anonymous said...

Agree about giving Robbo one last shot. I'd still be looking for a replacement in the summer if not during this window. I think the 3rd goal was deflected off Malbranque and may have wrong-footed Cerny, so I wouln't put it down to poor keeping. However, if Robbo is ever going to get a chance to prove he can still do it, then that goal may be seen to justify such a decision by JR.

Anonymous said...

Dawson had an awful game. Misheading resulting in the 1st goal and 2nd goal, and getting a RED Card.

Lennon should stay wide on the right and continue tormenting Evra, not sure why he drifted to the centre as the game went on.

Jenas missed 2 one-one chances. Unbelivable.

Anonymous said...

played well today i thought, just didn't take our chances.Not getting down about this loss as i'd resided myself to defeat as soon as the tie was drawn out the hat if i'm honest!(hopefully this will change under JR)lets push on in the league now and uefa and win that f***ing league cup final! Think woodgate would be a good signing,obviously big question marks about his fitness but i bet Ramos's left hand man could sort him out ,and he would be rotated more for us which would help him!king,woodgate,kabhoul,dawson bye bye Rocha,Gardner, like it.i read somewhere that Ramos said it will be his side in a year and after seeing what he's done in 3 months strap on your seat belts boys coz next season will be lift off!

dannispur said...

you give lennon too much credit - one good corner and a few runs but on most occasions made the wrong decision, shooting when other players were in better positions, hitting balls straight back to united instead of holding it up and waiting for support.

Anonymous said...

anyone know why King did not play?

Anonymous said...

That defence against Sunderland is one thing but Man U away something else entirely. However at the end of the game we had the result we probably expected but had played better than we thought when the teams were announced.

We missed chances which could have changed things and we even heard the Old Trafford crowd in the first half getting frustrated with their team.

At the end of the day our subs were not as good as theirs. Defoe was useless (as usual) and Boetang has not looked the part all year.

Woodgate signing will put pressure on Dawson that's for sure but don't be surprised if we go 3 at the back!

Going For The One

Anonymous said...

Dannyspur- and setting up our only goal...useless! Lennon is one of the players that has been very good for us under Ramos and has played a massive part in our counter attacking football ,he works back more now and yeah he does still make wrong decisions but they our becoming less frequent imo and dont forget that he's still well young Ramos will make him great as he has the attributes you can't teach like pace,balance for example

percy said...

Fair summary Harry. It was always going to be tough and we still have players playing out of position - makeshift is the word. But loads of positives - youngsters all over the team, fitness, attitude, organisation. As Ramos says - only been with us a few months but such a difference in an inherited squad. COYS

It's Them and Us said...

King was rested.

I hate to be negative, but I expected nothing less than the section of Spurs fans that never rated Jenas to jump straight onto his back the next time he didn't score or assist.

Seriously it's sometimes too predictable. I thought Jenas was alright. Nerves getting to someone at Old Trafford? Please, he's in great company. Like everyone else I hoped he'd bury it, but it wasn't to be. Not making any excuses for failing to hit the target as the finish was poor, but it's hardly worth dragging the nouse out for the lad. It was nice to see him bombing forward instead of never leaving the centre-circle. I certainly wouldn't call him "rubbish".

Tainio was again awesome. MOTM for me. We had two or three great chances and didn't take them -- against Arsenal we did -- that was the only difference.

Sometimes I just feel we moan for the sake of moaning. We didn't go there on a high and get turned over because of the excitement of the result mid-week. And with an incredibly make-shift back four we kept Rooney, Ronaldo and Giggs quiet. Huddlestone bossed Rooney, O' Hara had Ronaldo in his pocket and Giggs looked like an old man playing against kids.

O' Hara was awesome at left-back.

Yeah.. a little perspective at time eh lads?

Chris said...

generally think people are being a bit harsh on dawson and jenas today. overall jenas was doing well, but with the back four being what it was today, tainio couldn't JUST defend, and jenas couldn't JUST go forward.

end of the day, the worst player on the pitch for me (other than defoe) was berbatov. sadly lacking in the regained form today.

overall i think we were completely knackered from the arsenal game, and lets remember that dawson was playing without king and to be honest had a pretty good game EXCEPT that sodding penalty, i blame lee for the first goal (he looked like he was on dope or something...far too slow).

dawsons ball to lennon for the first goal for quality. but at the end of the day it was a standard united game, they play below par and still win.

(woodgate would be a definite positive in this months rumour grinding bollocks if it does go through).

Chris said...

oh and also, i thought boateng had a pretty good go today considering his previous few games.

clearly knew what ramos wanted him to do and did as much as he could, especially against united, good confidence, less psycho-tackles and commanded well to pass on the instructions....but thats just my opinion...

Anonymous said...

its them and us i totally agree one loss and jenas is shit again along with dawson,cerny,lennon(and people say we're fickle!) we lost at old trafford ..criminal! wait for it the jol apologists and commoli haters will be out in force any minute now

Anonymous said...

If you think Jenas had a shit game you clearly know fuck all about Football and should discontinue running a site that comments on Football. Yes missed a couple of chances but his all round game was nowhere near sure you were so gutted he had a good game on Tuesday against the Scum and would have rather he was shit so you could hate on him rather than revel in a cup final

As for the person who said Cerny and Lennon were shit...God Help us but I guess he belongs on a site like this.

You are no Spurs fan but just someone with an over inflated opinion of your own Blog and thats a pretty sad excuse for any Spurs fan. So tired of those who continue to criticise Jenas and as such I vote with my computer and will not return to your poor attempt at a Spurs Supporting Blog

Tefal said...

Jenas is beginning to be the player that we expect him to be but a lot of it is having someone like Tainio playing as the holding midfielder allowing Jenas to make the forward runs. Yes he missed 2 one on ones but I personally am pleased that he is getting into these positions. One thing about him though is that in my opinion he has an awful 1st touch which puts him in trouble so many times.

Anonymous said...

Incredibily harsh on Jenas. I actually thought he played very well even when he slotted in at CB. OK, he missed a couple but he was there making the runs beyond Hargreaves to get there. We really miss him when hes not in the side.

Anonymous said...

jenas like most of the players wasn't improved for 2or3 yrs under jol who obviously preffered sitting in his office smoking fags than improving players! We all see the potential in these players and if its there Ramos will get it out of them, keep jj making those runs and practice his finishing and we will have a top player, give Ramos time to sort them and if they havn't got it he will find someone else that has

Vinny said...

Chaps! Lee not good enough where due...or at least as we all know, he's definately not that top 4 defender to contribute to a champions league finish and we all know he's biding his time till Bales Back...BUT for the 1st goal, as of consequence of Dawson flying backward and attempting a very difficult header which Lee had covered (bad decision), he then was in lee's way to prevent making the clearance as Giggs did what an experienced great player does by holding Lee back legally to allow Tevez the shot.

Very little Lee could do about that I'm afraid.

Anonymous said...

Gilberto tomorrow experienced left back, don't know much about him but Ramos sanctions the deals so will trust his judgment,a cb and lb just what the doctor ordered,Tiago as well would of been nice but still,main changes in the summer!

Vinny said...

Yeah definately think Tainio was playing deeper to protect our makeshift defence left too much of a hole between him and Jenas allowing a big gap for Owen to boss the midfield.

Anonymous said...

nuts comment about jenas -got forward brilliantly in a way few midfielders in the premier league can van man made a great save and he fluffed one - guarantee no one else who would play for us would even get into that position. Over the season more will go in than not - he is becoming the player we all hoped he would and will win matches for us - HH u really have shown your complete lack of football knowledge with this one - stick to your internet spanking off if i were u

Anonymous said...

Does anyone know what has happened to Bent? I know most people don't rate him but he would of been good today when we were under pressure and there were a few anywhere will do clearances i reckon he would of chased much more of them down and its just that sort of game where he would be affective imo. is he injured? or i saw somewhere that he pissed JR off by ordering a cheese sandwich to his hotel room! enlighten me someone

Anonymous said...

Doesn't take much to cry burn the witch does it. So he fluffed a chance, big deal, overall he he had a good game and ran himself into the ground. Did you see the wayward shot Ronaldo had when he was in on goal?

BimitarDerbatov said...

my game wa called off so got to see the match in the end...

and low and behold...what did i spy only the main man Jenas back to his usual bottling self...

and i'm not just talking about his two unbelivable misses..

he may have played well Tuesday night but we're right back to square one with this lad..

who was it on here that said if he's not good enough to get into any of the top 4 sides then why are we persisting with him..well whoever said it, it's so true..

here's my notes on the game..

Ronaldo is an absolute w*nker. no doubt about it...everything he does is either for himself or the cameras but never for the good of his - pretending to cry after missing a chance..

i now 100% dislike Wayne Rooney.. my reason?? i will qoute what he said in the first didn't need to be a lip reader.."Oi ref, f*ck off ref, ref, you're a f*cking pr*ck."
how many young children are going to see this now and think this is how footballers should behave..disgusting..really disgusting

CERNY: (6)
loses marks for his first mistake in a Tottenham shirt

LEE: (3.5)
no good...way out of his depth here...

DAWS: (5)
at fault for first two goals..

BIG TOM: (6.5)
ok.. sweet pass to Lennon for goal

O'HARA: (6)
grand...did well om Ronaldo and also did well going forward..

LENNON: (6.5)
gets extra marks for the first decent cross we've seen in a while..loses marks for drifting out of game a bit

JENAS: (5)
see above..

marginally better than Jenas

102 and complaints..

BERB: (7.1)
dropped back deep so many times to try and show Jenas how to be a midfielder..a great leader..not his best day ever but still some nice passages of play..

KPB: (5.5)
still a bit mental..still can't figure him out

DEFOE: (4.5)
shite..f*ck off..quick

nothing special let's be honest..

that's all for now..

Anonymous said...

Good summary, HH.

Thought Spurs looked a bit tired and leaden-footed throughout. Too much champagne at China White's, maybe. Tactics masked the frailties, as you said. Players seemed to have trouble picking their feet off the turf.

In fact, the pitch didn't look that great. An early shot by Ronaldo took a huge 'Robinson's Friend' (also known as a bobble) but went wide of Cerny's post.

Our passes fell short, or wide, or were intercepted. Where was the pace and movement?

I had a feeling Jenas might go missing today. Failing to dominate, he had a few good moments, but far too many poor ones. Maybe Fergie's red nose dazzled him. That last miss on goal of his was a girl's shot. But even Ronaldo shot wide from as good as a position. Problem is, it's easy to forgive Ronaldo.

Tainio battled well, but to little avail, as any initiates he made ran into dead-ends further up-field. Lennon, despite Keane's goal, missed some fine opportunities to make goal-scoring passes.

Boateng showed a little more restraint than usual. Progress of a sort. I'm glad Gunter got a taste of the big-time. He must've enjoyed what contest he had with Giggs.

Dawson's handling looked deliberate to me, disguised as a flailing stumble to make it appear accidental. It would be easy to say the ref favoured the home crowd, but I think he got it right. Dawson screwed up embarrassingly, and the whole team paid the price. How very dare he?

King, Titan as he is, can't be relied on. Is he now so fragile that he has to be put in cotton-wool after a game? After so many injuries the body starts to compensate in other areas, leading to further troubles elsewhere. He's a bit like the house that Jack built. Sadly, Dawson without King seems rudderless.

Indignant we didn't win, if only to shut those tw*ts up in the studio (especially Hansen) who heavy pet the myth of Man U and its talented, but squalid, players. They all knew it would be good for the competition and game if Spurs had won, but couldn't bring themselves to say it. They harp on about the problems of the league, and how the top four have a strangle-hold, but refuse to envisage any other challenge than the simple one of lauding Man U's 'quality', Wenger's 'kids', Rafa's 'Captain Marvel' Gerrard, and Chelsea's 'pedigree players'.

Give me a break. To give Shearer credit, he at least commended Spurs for their efforts.

I thought Carrick looked disconsolate when he was subbed. Not that I should care much, but it wouldn't surprise me if he occasionally misses the club he left.

Mustn't be too down, as there's no shame in being beaten by Man U. Just disappointed that familiar weaknesses reared their ugly heads again and cost us.

Talking of ugly heads, Tevez was largely contained apart from the goal. And there was no sign of Phil Snivel. Hurrah.

I trust that, whatever coaching systems are now being implemented, they include powerful methods of working on the players' psychology and intelligence. Some players really need to show they are capable of thinking for themselves.

Eh, Mr Dawson?

Chins to the north. Onwards and upwards (up the league, that is).

9.37 Anon

Anonymous said...

bimitar- fickle to say the least! do you go through the season game to game when we lose they are all crap and when we win were amazing! and btw it was dawson that passed to lennon

It's Them and Us said...

Bent should be back in training next week if you believe the papers.

I didn't think Lee was bad at all if I'm honest. The problem for the first goal was a lack of communication -- if Dawson knew Lee was there, he'd of left it. If Lee had called then it'd of been dealt with. Did Dawson just not listen?

I don't know. But with King in the back line there seems to be a lot more communication between players so these mistakes don't happen.

BimitarDerbatov said...


one is only as good as one's last game..

appologies for that incorrect info..

Harry Hotspur said...

Instead of the pompous and empty whining of
'Harry you don't understand football you shouldn't be allowed to watch my beloved Spurs' crap, would anyone care to offer an appraisal of Jenas based upon the muck he served up this afternoon?

Or was the standard of distribution and finish from him what you aspire to?

If so get off this f**king blog at once and go support Fulham you mongs.

Anonymous said...

Fair summary HH i spoke to you before the game i said we would lose 3-2 I guess i was nearly right then.Anyway i think we played really well today with a makeshift team and we could of won the game.I thought everyone played well except Berba who tried a bit to hard today (Hmm i wonder why?)
I thought KPB was excellent when he came on today and if my fellow spurs would stop dissing him for one second.We would see that we have a real taltent on our hands.

It's Them and Us said...

Bimi.. I know you're a fan (and we all are) but Berbatov was terrible today. Far too often his great first touch let him down.

Nowhere near MOTM. Tainio or O' Hara for that accolade.

BimitarDerbatov said...

well said's my appraisal..

"not bloody good enough"

today was all about kicking on after Tuesday night and sadly too many players disappeared, content to sit back and live off Tuesday's performance for a while..none more so than Jenas..

anyone who thinks otherwise is really only kidding themselves..

remember the he good enough to get into any of the top 4 sides???

BimitarDerbatov said...

ya fair enough itsthemandus..

just like the way he tries to show everyone what to do..

It's Them and Us said...

I wasn't one of those to be quite as rude, but I did disagree. As for Jenas:

Thought he was a commanding presence in the middle with great energy (despite running his heart out against Arsenal), often picking up the ball from Tainio and looking to spread the play (we lacked a lot of movement from Steed at times and with both he and Lennon tucking in, it didn't leave many options). Yes he went back a lot but Hargreaves was tight on him for the reason that he is a danger to opposing teams.

I was fed up of seeing Jenas meander in the centre under previous managerial reigns -- doing nothing -- but when we broke he was a key part of that. Either looking to get onto a through ball or dragging away other players.

His first effort brought a great save from Van Der Sar and his second effort was wasteful -- but as someone else pointed out (Anon 9:37 I believe) Ronaldo too missed more than one good chance. So is he too now "rubbish"? Scoring a penalty and a fumbled shot maybe, but he wasn't any better than Jenas today.

As much as I believe sometimes he's over-hyped (maybe he needs people to have confidence in him) I also think people are over-critical for the sake of it -- because it's Jenas.

As for the 'would he get into a top 4 side'? If Sidwell and Jon Obi Mikel can get into a Chelsea side I'm conviced that Jenas could.

Anonymous said...

Football's a passionate game and our opinions reflect that. Maybe somewhere among all our pooled points of view is the truth.

We all support the same team. Ramos is still adapting to the Premier League and the green shoots are appearing.

To Dawson's credit, he made the pass to Lennon which resulted in our goal. I failed to acknowledge that earlier.

And Rooney's a ref-berating, cynical thug.


9.37 Anon

dannyboy said...

Harry, you little toerag. Very harsh criticism. Considering who / where they played, it was a very very good performance. The game was all about taking chances; they did, we didn't. End of.
You criticise Jenas in particular, but he got in those positions, he was all over the pitch, good in the tackle and finished the game at centre half!
If one or both of his chances had gone in would you have said the same? If we hadn't hit the post, got cleared off the line ditto?
Fickle mate I'm sorry to say. And you Dimitar. Fickle.
Against the Arse the defence was our 1st choice - Chimbo, Daws, Ledders and Lee; we finished the game with Gunter, Hudd, Jenas and O'Hara! How you can knock the performance and in particular individuals, is beyond me. In fact our worst player was Berbatov. Up until getting sent off, Dawson was immense (well, apart from their goal!) Such short memories some of you - Tuesday Heroes, today Zeroes. You make me ashamed. All you do is give nobs like Wrighty7 fuel for his fire.


Anonymous said...

spot on dannyboy!
Just gets stupid tbh

Harry Hotspur said...

it's them and us - I think that you scratch up the name Sidwell to cement JJ as a 'top four player' says a lot.

I have defended JJ in the past, I love his touch when he sprays the ball around. His goals are generally again, sweetly struck fare.

But he DID dissolve today. No two ways about it.

The short, harried passing game is completely opposed to his talents.

It's like asking a great architect to swap his pen and paper for two pieces of stickle brick. He WILL NOT achieve the same results.

Now presumably Ramos didn't give JJ instruction prior to the match
whereby he was too keep the balls short, preferably lateral or backward. Nor was he told 'don't repeat the game you had against the scum'.


But that's what we got.

I don't want him burnt at the stake, but he puts the shirt on, people are going to pass comment.

I think those WITH kind words for JJ tonight base them upon his time at the Lane todate.

Mine are specfic to his last 90 minutes. Which was cack.

Harry Hotspur said...

Mr Bond, I've been expecting you!

Dannyboy, I think I've been fair based on THAT 90 minutes.

"If one or both of his chances had gone in would you have said the same?"

Of course not mate, and that's my point. As a wise man said earlier, his shot when through the second time WAS that of a girl's.

And his game against Le Arse was great, but this one was nothing like it.

Harry Hotspur said...

Someone asked if Ronaldo ought be branded rubbish too because he made a mistake or too.

Answer - Obviously not, as virtually every time he got the ball he terrified the living daylights out of us.

Who did JJ 'terrorise' today?

dannyboy said...

H. Jenas game today was more defensive because that is the way it went. He broke forward when he could and it nearly paid off. Sometimes you can play well without the spectacular which is what I believe he did today. We agree to disagree. That's the beauty of this blog and quality blogs like it. You're still wrong though. Now do one before I get a big chinese villain to chuck a bowler hat at you!!!


Harry Hotspur said...

I'll duck off...

Anonymous said...

Harry i don't agree that he terrorized us i thought that steed and o'hara dealt with him well for the majority of the game, as for jj I'd rather someone make the chance and miss than not make the chance at all, i thought it was hard for jj today as he was up against 2 def mids in Hargreaves(his dad was a butler)n carrick but i don't think he hid, the thing with jj is if he keeps doing it he will get a lot of goals,how many does fat frank lampost sky into the stands but because he has 8000 shots a game he gets a lot of goals,improve his finishing along the way and were laughing!
ps i was not a big jenas fan but after his goal at the degenerates the opener the other night coupled with the equaliser last year at the lane against the scum he's earnt my backing and a couple of missed chances won't change that.I'll give him a fair amount of time under Ramos to see if he reaches his true potential and then make a judgement.

Anonymous said...

I look forward to the time when Ramos is no longer adapting to the Premier League, but the Premier League is adapting to him.

Apart from the application of his talents, he's under pressure to deliver. He has been recruited to get us into Champs League footie.

I can't see him diving out. Nor can I see him failing. I believe a giant is awakening (and I don't mean Kaboul rousing from his afternoon nap).

9.37 Anon

Pete The YiD said...

I agree with the general sentiment. We played really well. Tainio was monumental again. Jenas, despite the two misses, was also excellent throughout in his midfield play. I was particularly impressed with Boateng - that was the first time I've seen him look classy, as opposed to rough-and-ready. Lennon with the ball at his feet was deadly; Lennon with enough time to think and pass was not. O'Hara looked like a proper Premiership footballer, no problem, and he can play a pretty good left back. Gunter looked promising. Huddlestone made some progress toward proving me wrong when I say that he doesn't belong in defence - he was solid and confident.

The differences between today and Tuesday were (a) on Tuesday everything went in and today it didn't and (b) more importantly, we spent much of the game defending with a back line of 18, 23, 21 and 21. In the circumstances, I thought we generally defended pretty well. Except for Dawson's obvious expensive mistakes.

Anonymous said...

Gone are the days of jol acting like semi finals are an achievement its that next step that ramos took straight away by getting us to a Wembley final ,just got to win it now to make it nothing short of miraculous considering the shambles when he took over(which was no fault of his) and we are still in his fav comp the uefa! cant really judge him on the league till next year really as he started with such a handicap(bottom 3)

dannyboy said...

Just as an aside, it does seem that the majority of comments today are PRO jenas. Is that the case or are my lenses still rose coloured? You know my thoughts, but I do want him to perform week in week out. He CAN go missing from games, but that wasn't the case today.
Ducking hell.


Getagrip said...

Hard to believe half the contributors on here are either Spurs fans or have memory retention better than that of a goldfish. Tuesday was beyond our wildest dreams - today was a reminder of what happens when you play well but don't take your chances. Berba missed when clean through on Tues - it didn't affect the result. JJ misses today in similar situation and everyone's on his back.
The win over Arsenal doesn't make us world beaters and the defeat today doesn't make us all-time losers.

If any of the contributors have kids, God help them if you treat them the same way you treat your favourite team and its players.

Get a sense of balance and proportion or piss off to Talk Shite and chat with Mike Parry and the other morons there

Chris said...

BimitarDerbatov: gotta say im massively underimpress by your scores, a putting hudd as the guy responsible for the pass to lennon for the goal (maybe showing your bias by then routing dawson for his mistakes) and secondly, in your not-so apt marking of our missed out steed.

did you even watch the game?

It's Them and Us said...

I disagree also with Ronaldo terrorizing us. Did I worry when he first got the ball, considering his form? Naturally. But after about ten minutes of O' Hara keeping him quiet and I didn't fear about our left-hand side at all. O' Hara bossed him so much apart from the penalty and a fluke goal the 'best player in the world' was anonymous. Apart from when he cried.

Over the 90 minutes I can't criticise Jenas except for that one poor effort. Why the guy is so hated amongst some fans I'll never know (not talking about you specifically HH). Frustration is one thing and we've all felt our fair share of that supporting Spurs, but I get the feeling some "fans" want Jenas to fuck up so they can say, "I told you he was shit!" and it smacks of stupidity.

Steed was great before Ramos took over but Jenas is easily the most improved, for me, since Juande has come on board. The lad is finally showing signs of progression. His runs, his movement are now up there with a more consistant work-rate. In the bracket of Gerrard and Lampard? Not at all, but I can certainly understand NOW why people are talking about him being in the next England squad.

Anonymous said...

If the slate was wiped clean when Ramos arrived, then Jenas is still progressing.

As fans we see everything. Chairmen come and go. As do coaches, players, kits and stadia. Only the fans stay the same, year in year out, watching, experiencing the lows, feeling hope renewed, waiting for glory.

Hopes sometimes get pinned on individuals. Some players become our talismen - such as Berba who, for me, can do no wrong (almost). Others become objects of frustration. For some, Jenas is the latter (guilty as charged, Your Honour).

In the wisdom of the BBC pundits, Jenas is the most improved of Spurs players under Ramos. That's unfair to Malbranque, in my opinion, who's been twice the player he was under Jol. But, yes, Jenas has improved.

At what age do you guys think skills become fixed in a footballer? I mean, can a player go on developing his technical skills until he retires? Or does he reach a point where he hits a ceiling, and the rest of his development is based on spatial, tactical and psychological strengths?

My point is, can Jenas' first touch and dribbling skills improve at his age? Same goes for Lennon, Defoe or anyone? I'm not accusing him or anyone else of being especially inept, but I'm keen to know what to expect in terms of a professional footballer's development in the modern game. Am I expecting too much?

I was never a great footballer myself, and stopped playing competitively when I was in my teens, so I bow to the wise men here.

9.37 Anon

It's Them and Us said...

Steed has been our player of the season but that, for me, is because we've had a fully-fit Steed Malbranque (the same argument can be made for Lennon coming good again now, as he's fitter).

In terms of actual improvement, as a footballer, I edge it to Jenas.

Anonymous said...

dribbling and other skills can be improved regardless of age (if you are younger you have more time)but the more you practice something the better you get at it, anything that can be practiced and coached can be improved,the things you can't teach are things like jj's athleticism or lennon's pace!

dannyboy said...

You get better at anything the more you practice as long as you have the skill in the first place. Ask my wife ;-)


Anonymous said...

To go to Old Trafford was a big ask with a fully fit squad and when I saw the team sheet and the fact that King was missing I knew our chances were even slimmer. Clearly things are not right with Ledders still to miss such an important game. No question that with him in the back four we are a different side.This is why I guess we are actively looking for another experienced cb in Woodgate and Puyol from Barca.

IMHO we need two world class cbs and a quality RB plus two attacking midfielders who can open up the channels for Berbi and Keane.

On the up side we are chasing and closing down a lot better and seem a much fitter team than under Jol.

Huddlestone I felt was at fault with the Tevez goal as if you look at the TV replay he let Tevez get away from him and did not close him down before he shot. I thought his passing was poor today.

Jenas covered a lot of ground but his distribution was bad and his finishing. Lennon again is starting to look sharper but needs to deliver the killer ball more often. Taino battled well and Steed looked a little flat today.

Gunter looks ok but still very young for first team squad. Boetang looked better today but I am not convinced he has any real strengths apart from bundling players down in dangerous positions. He looks very awkward on the ball to me... Lee is not good enough simple... Cerny looked secure until his mistake... but Roanldo should have been closed down before he got a shot away...

All in all I think we were weakened by Ledders absence but Ramos is beginning to make his mark and I loved the way he went for United even with 10 men by taking off a defensive player and putting on Defoe.

I am confident Ramos will bring in quality players and that we are back on the road towards challenging the top four....

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sigh said...

erm, a few comments worth deleting there mr moderator?

shanemac said...

not sure what that's about...

i think this match could have gone either way. we held our own against the ridiculous collection of talent that is man utd. if you just look at the players they have and compare them to ours, there's no way we should stand a chance. but watching the match, we were always in it! we created just as much as they did and we didn't get dominated in the midfield. sure jenas fucked up a couple chances and malbranque wasn't on top form. but we had fucking jamie o'hara playing his 8th or something match, out of position, lined up against the best player in the world! we had a central midfielder playing in the centre of defence! our best options on the bench were useless jermain defoe and bloody kevin-prince "ghaly v2.0" boateng. they brought paul fucking scholes and anderson in off the bench. we're close, boys, just a few pieces short, methinks. i think there are a lot of positives to be taken out of this match, hope i'm not irritating anyone with my optimism, but i'm usually incredibly dark and cynical about our performances and prospects of success.


Anonymous said...

How lovely a couple of imbeciles to give the north a bad name,thanks for your pearls of wisdom ,expressed with such wit,charm and humor oh to be so articulate!
now do one and get back to your ale,or your dripping sandwich or whatever other shit you monkeys scoff!
all that pent up anger and aggression ...why don't ya get back to "the wife" and take it out on her as usual!
By the way say hello from me and the boys she loves our yearly visit(twice this year eh!)

BimitarDerbatov said...

chris..looks like i'm having a "Jenas" day myself!!

humblest appologies to you and to Steed for leaving him out!! yes i did watch the game...

and i stand by my opinions..obviously the "sweet pass" should be credited to Daws..

as for Jenas...i'm sick of giving out about him so i'm just going to shut up and wait till next week's game vs united... that will give him and a lot of the rest of the lads a chance to set the record straight once again...let there be no excuses this time...

hope i'm wrong bout JJ but honestly don't think i am..just one man's opinion've just proven yourself to be another classic case of us resting on our laurels... why should we accept poor performances from anyone, be it Berb, Jenas or whoever, just because they played well on Tuesday??
did we not want to win the game today?? why are we settling for less?? i don't want to be slating these players but if i feel let down by a performance then why shouldn't i vent my anger..we're Tottenham and we deserve better.. Fickle?? no.. passionate..definitely

and another thing.. this bringing out of a DVD of the 5-1 game really admits to the inferiority complex we have with special as that night was, why not go and beat everyone else that way and have a season to imortalise on DVD and not just one night in 9 years...

are we going to live off Tuesday night or are we going to start something special because of it??am i wrong for wanting more from my Tottenham?? am i wrong for demanding the best from every player in every game?? well am i Dannyboy?? you tell me..

It's Them and Us said...


Of course you shouldn't accept second-best, but nor will some of us accept unfair criticism (in our opinions) towards a game we only lost due to not taking our chances. With our back four on show I'm pretty sure every Spurs fan sank a little further down into their seat and those quiet Mancs starting rubbing their hands expecting a rout. Instead we matched them stride for stride but unlike in the Arsenal game we didn't take our chances, and unlike in the Arsenal game we made a helluva' mistake (see Dawson's handball/sending off).

Am I happy at matching probably the most in-form side in England right now? Pretty happy. Not great, but happy enough. Am I happy that despite him (Ronaldo) taking the headlines, everyone knows that a young lad who played for Millwall this season kept 'the best player in the world' in his back pocket, while playing out of position.

Accept poor performances? Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't you rate Dimitar Berbatov as your MOTM? Ironic, some might say. He was incredibly poor. Tired? Carrying a knock? Perhaps, but he was probably our worst player overall yesterday.

I'm not getting at you mate, because I agree with what you say usually, but I think sometimes it's easier to target certain players (Jenas, Lee) who generally do pretty well instead of pointing out the real culprits.

Jim said...

To those quick to slag off Jenas, I put it to you to name another one of our midfielders who put themselves in one on one with the keeper all season. Yes, his finishing was poor but it will come.

Bimitar, I am just not seeing Yippee Lee getting lower marks than Dawson. We were better at the back with ten men than with Dawson's mistimed headers.

dildo said...

if i was JR i'd slap a 1 week fine on dawson for poor performance and 2 weeks fine for the red card.

next time pls dont leave ur brain at home daws

kevin-prince "ghaly v2.0" boateng.. lol

shanemac said...

Berbatov was definitely not our worst player yesterday. That's absolutely ridiculous. What i see happening here is people being overly protective of their favourite player. For some reason, people think that Jenas is "more" of a Tottenham player than Berbatov is. Why is that? Is it because Jenas pretty much sums up Tottenham over the last 10 years? that is, loads of potential, but rarely seems to figure it out. imo, Berbatov is as important to our progress as Ledley is. Jenas has made great strides under Ramos and I think he will be a key player for us in the coming weeks and months. Right now we're seeing a blend of the Jenas of old (ie. panicky on the ball, poor tactical awareness) and the new (goal-scoring threat along with moments of great vision). In any case, we'll know for sure what we're made of in about a month or so.


BimitarDerbatov said...

can't argue with that shanemac..

anyway as i said i'm going to shut up now and wait for next week for Jenas to prove me wrong....hope he does....BUT.....

Berb was definitely NOT our worst player yesterday...that's a ridiculous statement...i know i sometimes exagerate his score but it's only coz i love him so much..his leadership qualities alone deserve high marks..

and i say again YPL was way out of his depth yesterday..Ramos knew this..why else would he have started him on the right? to keep him away from Ronaldo..and he was subsequently subbed..he's had a few good days this year but yesterday was not one of them..sorry..

jolsgonemental said...

I thought Jenas did alright, sitters excluded. Last season he would have looked to pass both chances to someone else at the first opportunity, so I wouldnt say he 'bottled' it..

Shit shooting yes.

And Dawsons intellect has never been his strongest attribute as far as I am concerned..In fact that was fucking bizarre...I am sure Ferdinand or Brown would have got away with it though

HighandLow said...

On the positive, we outplayed Manure for large parts of the game and I thought Ramos was tactically superb, very bold even when down to 10 men.

The defence has looked far more assured with Cerny between the sticks and everyone is entitled to one mistake, so unless he makes another error soon, Robbo should have to wait.

O'Hara had a great 1st half, but struggled for the last half-hour (maybe he run out of gas?), but he’s a young lad and it would be harsh to criticise

Dawson was great, apart from 2 moments of sheer madness, unfortunately both led to goals and it seems he cannot concentrate for a full game without The King next to him.

Harry, I think your blog is class and your comments are generally spot-on, but I must disagree with a few of your assessments;
Defoe did make a difference, he gave the ball away the first 3 times he got it (one of which led to their 3rd goal)
I agree that Lee did have a good game, but only up until their 1st goal when he gracefully dived out the way and was pretty awful for the remainder of the game
I partly agree with your assessment of Jenas, as you stated (to Dannyboy) “based on this game”, but sorry, the article suggests otherwise and I took it that you were referring to Jenas ‘as an overall player’.

Since Ramos took over that was JJ’s first ‘poor’ performance, maybe you could label a couple of his games as ordinary previously but that was the first ‘poor’.

Yesterday his passing let him down badly and the second 1on1 was nothing short of “girly”, but still there were some positives. He done nothing wrong with the first 1on1 (his shot was going in and the keeper made a good save) and his work rate was good.

Still, Jenas is being judged on his Jol performances and if he goes back to that form he should get the stick he would deserve, but IMO this article’s assessment of him was OTT.

GRAZZA said...

Wasnt that identical to (nearly) every spurs performance at OT in Prem Era history??

A valiant performance littered with missed chances, if & buts and a slice of self destruction??

No tears shed from me, ultimately we didnt deserve to win on balance of play IMO but we "could" have done and thats the only slight bugbear ive got with yesterday. I think it would have been a bit of a robbery.

I dont think YPL helped daws on the first goal tbh, if hed have called it he would have had a far easier header away - but that doesnt excuse Daws bad positioning, i hate to see him make mistakes it hurts more than most, as i keep harping on for that performance he put in against West ham after lasagnegate. But ultimately hes coming up short this year.

Someone mentioned about YPL going to RB this week, i think that may have been for team balance as O'hara is a lefty and YP is right footed?

On the subject of O'Hara, thought he was brilliant yesterday, ive never seen anyone get so many tackles, you know actual proper, stand-up block tackles on Ronaldo - i thought he played him superbly apart from a 5 minute spell. But thats 85 minutes more than any other defender has kept him quiet for! Top marks young lad.

Tainio is doing himself and Spurs proud for me at the mo, i hope he grows into that role like ive got a suspicion he might, after all this is a guy with more champs league experience than the rest of our squad put together!!! (that may or may not be bollocks but i cant think of anyone else off of the top of my head!)

Anonymous said...

Totally expected those that were sucking themselves off cause Jenas had one good game against decent opponents to be trying to tell us how great he was again yesterday.

Wow he had two good runs and two piss weak shots, yeah he's the player you want running the midfield.

No team seems to come in for him during transfer windows, probably because they can't find him hiding behind some decent player.

Useless ponce who plays his best against the likes of Derby the worst team to "grace" the prem and will try and live off that game against the scum for the rest of the season, picking up his inflated wages and driving his Bentley.

EL said...

An ungenerous but not inaccurate round up Harry. Jenas has the same problem he's always had; inconsistant and not ultimately creative enough given the position he has on the field. Ramos is probably about 4 or 5 'better than we've got' players away from sorting the team out and I think it won't be until next season that we'll see what he can do and if it turns out that Berbs & king have no future with us, they will prove very difficult weapons to replace. I'm doubtful about the cup final and getting into Uefa via a league placing. Next season with no european football would make purchasing even more difficult than it currently is. Not to mention the stadium capacity and wage structure.

The club have some things to sort out before we can even think of making a move on a top 4 place.

I'm really not sure if the Ramos effect alone will be enough.

Hope I'm wide of the mark.

Go on the Spurs!

Anonymous said...


Vinny said...

Welcome Jonathan Woodgate!...decent prem experienced cover alongside/or may even jump ahead of Dawson, who knows, as long as he stays out of the physio room.

With Gilberto an experienced left back coming, will also be a decent alternative to Lee while Bale's out.

Hutton would be a bonus if he really wants to join Spurs, we'll know by Thursday evening I guess.

By at least signing cover in these much needed 2 areas of defence so far, the management has done a sufficient enough job identifying our obvious defensive weaknesses for now until the summer when all the possibilities of the big window will be available, sounds like "Rainbow"...;0)

Of course who we'll be able to sign then will depend on whether we can offer European footie.

Then I expect we'll see a couple of key signings in the central midfield and leftwing or general playmaker/creative roles.

Heres to the juande-rful times ahead!

dannyboy said...

mmmmm I'm sure someone back in December suggested Woodgate as a possible signing? This management lark ain't so hard after all ;-)

Good signing in my opinion. He must have (hopefully) had a very stringent medical given his past injury problems, but then he has played regularly for Boro over the last 2 seasons, so touch wood that's all behind him.

No offence Daws, but he's the real deal and the prospect of him and Ledders together is actually quite exciting, if King can stay fit as well!


BimitarDerbatov said...

yep... can't complain with this signing..

i'm always happy to see new players coming in no matter who they are..

"innnocent until proven useless" is my motto...

of course we all know Woodgate is decent and experienced at the very least.. so roll on the good times hopefully!!

furthermore i would like to table a motion that we affectionately call our new signing "Woody"

pompeyyid said...

I'm with you on the Woodgate signing - if he stays fit. A genuine heads-up defender. Him & King together are a real prospect. Sound positionally, proper tacklers, brave, athletic and hopefully not constantly crocked.
Anon 12.43
Strong words on Jenas. Must take an awful lot of bottle to throw them about without identifying yourself. But, maybe, you're right about the "useless ponce". Then again you might consider this - 6 league games played without JJ this season; lost five (only beating Fulham); one Eufa cup game lost (JJ absent for that one). Hmmm ... could be just a coincidence, but ....

shanemac said...

Did Woodgate take a pay cut to come?

Still like to see a midfielder come in.