The poll in the side bar to your immediate (top) right is loaded with what might be confused with 5 straight options.
Inevitably, after so much spleen venting, we ought weigh up the mood in the camp.
Rumours of a particularly unsubstantiated nature abound. My guess is that if we can remove ourselves from the 'angry mob' vibe on most forums and the usual crackpot 'Klin Man Could Be In Man' back page fantasy tales then Jol will be around for oh, I don't know.... 'some more games yet'...
Rumours of a particularly unsubstantiated nature abound. My guess is that if we can remove ourselves from the 'angry mob' vibe on most forums and the usual crackpot 'Klin Man Could Be In Man' back page fantasy tales then Jol will be around for oh, I don't know.... 'some more games yet'...
There have been some excellent comments as per usual on HH, but let's have a little vote on it then. While we wait upon reality...
59 comments:
of course he will
any good goonner wants Jol to stay
You've had my honest opinion on the matter Harry, what's yours? And no fence sitting. Should he go or stay?
harry;
the important thing is that the board don't rush into a panic appointment. we're six games into the season and we haven't even played a uefa game yet.
what about this scenario - levy gives jol until the end of the season (which will likely happen by default since the choice of replacements will be much greater) with the proviso that if he doesn't win a cup or finishes lower than fifth, he walks away.
then again - what if jol wins the uefa but we slip down the league? is that progress?
jol has taken us as far as his abilities will allow. the only question is when he is replaced, and that depends more on who's available than how he might do the rest of the season.
i fink he wil stay for this season unless we have sum disastrous results or if the board can persuade LIPPI or CAPELLO into the hot seat cos dey r d only big names available @ the moment. KOEMAN told BBC he wil b managing in EPL nex season!!!
I had a thought yesterday in whilst stuck in traffic coming back from the lane yesterday. The fact is Martin Jol is an assitant manager he was appointed our assistant and was also wanted by man utd as an assistant. Putting him in charge of the team when Santini wasn't the issue it was who replaced him as assistant..i am of course talking about mr hughton. He is the major reason we lose games he isn't good enough. Its bad enough having a manager who doesn't isn't very tactically minded but having someone else by his side with nothing to offer is making things far worse than they need to be. P.S. Drop Jenas
Jol is gone. there is no coming back, Hughton must follow him out.
the season is fucked if he goes now or later, which at the very least means we dont have to make a snap decision.
so I say get his replacement lined up first.
lets get the job advertised on Monster.co.uk.guaranteed we hook a couple of decent names, ambition may make you look pretty ugly but Spurs will always turn a few heads. it is a fucking massive post with real potential for great things.
Me, I would like Hiddink or Hughes.
Likely? no. But I think we MUST not make a panic decision and get another numpty like Jol in, we need someone with proven calbre.
Non english speakers....i dont think it will work. Sorry wiggy ramos and cappello.
also we should sell Chris Armstrong 2.0 to West ham first opportunity we get.
I will never ever forgive the miss on Saturday. ever.
Just GO. dick.
Dannyboy, nice one mate. I had a feeling it would be you. I'm amazed I wasn't challenged earlier!
He should stay.
This campaign has been a f**king abortion so far.
Fact.
Is my patience exhausted?
YES.
My love for Spurs is no greater than any other Yid. However I am 'alright' with being branded a fence sitter as what I demand myself is GENUINE alternatives.
Personally, if Clive Allen was in charge from midnight tonight I'd toast him & cheer.
He's a real person.
He knows what we want.
I want Hughton out immeadiately. No loss there.
The red top fantasy of the old 'Let's get Lippi in' retoric leaves me cold. Not nervous - we deserve a coach that might match our expectations, but these names have to be made real.
Are any of them actually interested in us? You know Capello said 'no' before a ball was kicked this season?
It ain't easy, so many many points yet to play for and the club, OUR club must come first. Bail Jol, by all means, if we progress as a consequence, but tell me what the alternative is!
COYS!
I'm glad most people have voted him to stay, there is too much knee jerk reaction in football and whilst the start off the season has been really poor and Jol sometimes makes errors, I am still very much backing him. I don't think there is a better alternative and as fans we should continue to support rather than destabilize!
anon 9.01
No knee jerk here pal; just honest considered opinion, based on 2 seasons and 6 games. Clive Allen, get in there sunshine.
Harry - do you need tweezers for pulling out the splinters in your arse - get off the fence man !!!
And where's the numpty who called me a muppet on the last thread ?? Grrrrr.
coys
Comolli is the problem he has still has not bought a midfield any one that thought we were championd league material is in cloud cookoo land .
It does not matter if you get rid of Jol with the squad we have and the money we have spent YEAR IN YEAR OUT the players are simply not good enough another manager could get certain players to over achieve but wont make them any better .
The poll means nothing really as non-Spurs fans can vote for Jol to stay
I saw the derby game in a pub. It was a real sickener. The problem is, we Spurs fans talk with our hearts, not with our heads. Just like other fans, really. There was a genuine hope - forlorn - that we'd win. That's all we do : hope. Arse fans expect. To them it comes as no surprise when they win. To them it's normal. We still get surprised by success, fans and players alike. What is it with us, that we are accustomed to being underdogs?
So, yes, Jol out. End of story. No more leading with the heart, no more commendations for Mr Nice Guy. You said it, Harry - Spurs are a business. Levy owns the gaff, the staff are his employees, and he can do whatever he wants. Too right he can. Dog eat dog. And, to be fair to Levy, he would appear - from what I have read - to have made a success of Spurs plc. As a comparison - again, from what I have read - Chelsea are potentially in deep do-do. If the Russian pulls the plug the Chavs are in big trouble. Not that the Russian will pull the plug. Why would he? But who knows? Maybe he will.
Point is, financial wealth is preferable when it's real rather than conceptual.
Additional point is, if you were Levy, what would you do now? All very well to say Jol's not up to the job (of what, by the way - providing Levy with Champions' League revenue?), but what to do now? What should have been done in the summer could prove a disaster now. Seems to me the board is hoist by it's own petard, eh, what? Who'd wanna replace Jol now? Who would be so vain, arrogant and mercenary as to assume that mantle, hold that poisoned chalice?
Well, yes, there are plenty of them out there.
But are they good for Spurs?
Ok, so let's suppose I'm a coach. I wouldn't want the job, were I offered. Would any of you out there? What do any of us want from a job, besides favourable terms and conditions, and an opportunity to enjoy good company?vAnd how would any replacement commence his tenure, at this point of a season?
If you were the Chairman, would you seriously want to risk your multi-million investment by changing the pilot of your ship so soon after you'd left port? What a total crap situation Spurs are in! Stability, my arsenal! Shot to effin pieces. When the board was caught courtin' Ramos Spurs season was scuppered. Boy, am I pissed off! Makes you reflect on the whole point of supporting a club. All that emotional investment is just held up to the sun of financial profit and vagary and it just totally evaporates.
But we don't support Spurs by choice. We support by default. We support by an accident of birth. Me, I'm a Tottenham man through and through. Went to school there. Lived (and still live) within distance of hearing the cheers every time a home goal goes in. Saw Greaves score a hat-trick against Burnley in a 7-0 win on 7 September 1968. Pat Jennings saved a penalty. I was so happy that day, with my father. It was a cold day, I think - the guys ran around clutching the cuffs of their shirt-sleeves for warmth. You don't choose your team, your team chooses you. Would I rather see Spurs successful than England? Yes, probably Spurs. Spurs are my family, England my relations.
What can we hope to do with this blog, Harry? Truth is, I come here to learn, not to preach. There are wonderful contributors here - yourself included - who help me put into perspective what I'm not able to put into words. That's because I'm so bust FEELING the game rather than thinking it. The people here help me understand the dynamics and components of the game - so, thanks to one and all.
But what can this blog do, in terms of exert influence favourable to Spurs? Believe me, I wish Jol would read this now and again - maybe we wouldn't be looking at a potential relegation battle. I have a horrible feeling in my stomach that this season could implode. In the Arctic they catch rodents by putting salt on the ice. When the rodent licks the salt its tongue sticks to the ice. I feel Spurs are in a similar situation.
Change of subject - Robinson. Is he left- or right-handed? Right-handed - and right-footed as well. A long long, long time ago when I played footie I played for a while in goal. I'm right-handed, right-footed. All human beings have an asymmetry. My right leg is longer and stronger than my left. I found it easier to leap from right to left, with the spring of my right leg propelling me. I often used to flounder left to right. Funny thing was, during the England-Russia game Robinson dived left to right to block a shot at an angle to his right post. He didn't so much dive as fall sideways. More like a flop, really. Reminded me of me (not good, not at all good, but I had my moments - when diving to my left). Perhaps he suffers from an inability to overcome his body's inherent asymmetry.
On the other hand, he may be just shit.
We have some tough games coming up. This season is looking more like a briar patch than a clear ascent up a hill. Harry, you mentioned the Peter Principle in relation to Hughton. Could say that of Jol, too - we're all promoted to our level of incompetence. And there we stay.
Until we're found out.
9.37 Anon
I feel the house is in a mess, needs to be organised, MJ is a very nice man, he has done a lot for us, he has limitations and doesnt seem he can go to the next step up and hence Spurs are stuck. MJ should go and so Houghton before its too late, now is the rite time to rescue this season, Jeanus is not playing well so he should go, Barbatov seems moody so lets cash in, may be 2 or 3 players to go and bring new ones by next shopping window. But can we attract big name manager like Ramos???!!!
9.37
10.14
Thank you.
Undeniably top posts.
9.37 anon - monster post mate! Written from the heart. Glory glory days r us.
Here's a thought; how about Alex Inglethorpe as caretaker ?! The youth team are scoring goals for fun, 6 again yesterday for the 2nd time this season. If the youngens can do it, why can't the big boys ?!
Am I dreaming again? Night all.
coys
Sacking Jol today tomorrow or at the end of the season is irelevant and dangerous as we have nobody better at the club to take charge. Only when we have found the right appointment who will be BETTER than Jol should anything be decided. Although the board has been given a good kicking for Ramosgate at least they appear to be following this strategy. Jol is not awful, just limited and at times inept.
Also, why give Hughton such a big roll in the current situation? He is assistant to Jol and does what he is told. Does Pat Rice get a large part of the credit for Arsenal's success? And why blame Comolli? i think he has attracted some top draw buys. Ultimately results are the responsibility of the coach.
I hate to say it but when was the last time robbo actually made a "world class save" or even a save that was a "great save"?
He made a few "average saves" yesterday(ones that any average goalie would be expected to make) before screwing up again for the first 2 goals - their 3rd was wonderful, if berba had scored it i'd still be watching the re-run.
I watched brad friedel make a couple of great saves at chelsea on tv and they end with a nil nil.
smashing bloke that robbo but he's not up to it and the fact that jol cant see it means he's not up to it either.
even a half decent goalie would have secured us an extra 4 points this season, not great but not a crisis which we have now........bolton and liverpool away, villa home - how many points with the team as fragile as they are now?
more to the point if we went 3-0 up in any of those games would u put your house on a win?
THOUGHT NOT!!
As of the last two or three seasons, tottenham have been sluggish (to be kind to them) at the start of seasons, and i think ours will continue for a while longer. With luck we can pick up some vital points against Villa and Bolton, but with the way we are playing, a point at Newcastle would be a great result and unless our defending improves i genuinly fear what the trip to anfild could bring.
Say what you want about our signings, in my humble opinion the biggest problem is that there is always too many of them, approaching 10 signings this summer, a few last janruary and 10ish the summer before (Dont quote me on this). The point of this rant being that if every 6 months we are trying to blend in half a team into the current one, there will be problems.
Just look at Everton, this summer signed 3 solid players in Yakubu, Baines and Pienar (Sp?) and not a host of 'squad and backup' players. You could name their team a fortnight before a game. With us it seems as if everyone has a different opinion on who should play in half the positions - and i dont think Jol is much different.
To improve the defence they must play togather week in week out, saturday was the first time that Kaboul and Dawson played togather. But now they are fit i can only hope that Jol doesnt try and give Tone or Rocha a run out just because he feels they have to. Once they get used to playing togather we will become tighter as a team and by christmas we will be safely midtable, and possibly challenging for uefa at the end.
Rant over.
9.37
Super post my friend. Harry deserves a post like you every now and again just to let him know how it is.
Yes as per the great posts already made, we are really in the brown stuff. Six games in and only Derby have been beaten. Another couple of defeats and we really could have a season of struggle which would make attracting any decent players in the next two windows very difficult.
On the other hand the Board have screwed up so badly that I do not know how they can get things back on an even keel.
On balance I would remove the Jol/Hughton team right now and maximise the time to get a new man in before the next window and hope that whoever he is that he can muster a decent cup run or even a top six finish in order to get European footbal next season.
what gets me is that in lasagnegate season we were much more solid as a team and if anything not too hot up front.
We looked like a tough unit to break down and Jol looked for all the world like he may be the Dutch George Graham. Hansen used to lick his arse for his defensive acumen.
Now we cant buy a clean sheet, our defence is a shambles and we regularly concede multiple goals.
how did he go from that to this?
A (and the only decent one i have ever heard) pro Jol argument is that he has now made his mistakes and should be given a chance to show he learnt from them, but as far as I can tell contrary to that fair logic he is actually going backwards.
The derby is becoming like Groundhog day. we all KNEW what was going to happen way before the match kicked off.
This season is Groundhog Day.
Headlines on here from last season:
'We're Going Backwards At WHL'
'Martin Jol's Blue & White Botch Job' and there was another, something about 'TICTACS For Tactics' - with Martin's favourites being the tangy orangey ones... anyway...
As things stand today we're struggling to stand still.
Jol appears to have grasped NO lessons from last season or even from the week before last for that matter.
Commonsense dictates there is a plan beyond rolling him up in a length of carpet and dropping him off at Hackney Marshes... but there has to be a plan.
This is wandering around aimlessly hoping.
A couple of comments were left on here after the player ratings reminding me that Taarabt wasn't bloodied at Premiership level etc etc. It might ruin him if he was over exposed at this stage.
Well I don't agree at all. Something needs to be done to shake up the tactics.
I do not think Adel is 'the finished article' at all. But by Christ he wants a bloody game. And The Prince. He seems to enjoy kicking a ball about too.
I honestly wouldn't mind if we lost 1-3 to anyone good if we showed some spark.
I'm bored watching Steed slow our attack and Lennon out of position.
What a mess.
Where did you say that supermarket that CH shops in is again? I want blood.
Re gd 9.57
You stole a march on what would have been my next post. Pertinent, incisive, sharp-shooting questions from a human among chimps. You're my post of the week and I concur with Sir Harry; please come again.
The clamour for Jol's head has, for many it seems, created an eclipse of perception and obfuscated the failure of those responsible for sorting out the screamingly obvious manpower problems which have existed in this team for the entire time that Jol has been in charge. On top of that, as you have said, and I'm happy to repeat it, the board have the gall to demand a top 4 spot from a man who has twice shown that with an unbalanced side clearly lacking in some departments, he has shown the tactical nous to take us to 5th.
Never mind what Levy has managed with Tottenham, he can lay claim to having turned a fair portion of our support from a quietly frustrated set of humourous fans into an ugly bleating bunch of rowdy brats.
Jol's doing nowhere near as badly as is made out, it's Comolli & the board who worry me most. And where the fcuk's our left winger!
Headline Of The Day from Spursweb.
"JOL: I'M GOING NOWHERE"
You couldn't make it up.
Have had a quick sweep around the message boards in my lunch.
All thoroughly depressing.
It's all so childish. People acting as though we have had something we were promised taken away.
SpursCommunity is worse but..... JolsGoneMental on here. You are such a massive wanker! You really are. Chris Armstrong 2.0!? You are the epitome of what people think about Spurs fans. You don't deserve a ticket every week. A shameful embarrassment on the club and the fanbase.
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/35/petition-to-remove-martin-jol-as-manager-of-tottenham-hotspur
Get Him Out - sign the petition.
..."Jol's a great man"....Jol's really decent bloke"....." I really like Jol, he's like one of us".....
If anyone here has views similar to the above then I pity you.
I don't care what Jol is like as a human being. For all I care he could spend his spare time shooting kittens, dodging taxes and parking in the disabled bay at Morrison's for his weekly shop.
All I want is a manager who can deliver results and adapt the team, tactics and play to suit in order to achieve this ultimate goal of winning a game.
The moral fibre and personality of a manager is at best secondary.
This ain't a game for nice guys.
couple of points to make.
don't blood 18 year olds? erm, Micah Richards, Wayne Rooney, Aaron Lennon anyone?
Chris Hughton shops at the Brookfield Centre in Cheshunt.
Jolsgonemental maybe a massive wanker but he makes some VERY good observations.
coys
12.23pm
yes. thats right. chris armstrong 2.0.
can you please clarify on whose behalf you are offended.
darren bent or chris armstrong?
yours truly
Massive Wanker
ps. your detailed and indepth counter argument to why all these spurs fans are in the wrong was most enthralling.
i actually thought i was being quite reasonable on this thread and yet I still attract a numpty.
its an uncanny knack.
JGM, I didn't really want to go into why I think 'all these spurs fans are in the wrong' because I simply have a different opinion to most (thankfully not all) of them.
Yes I am incredibly frustrated by our start like everyone is but saying we should sack the manager is just over-simplifying things. There are many reasons we have started poorly. Robbo, injuries to the back 4, not enough goals not coming from the front two, bit of bad luck (only talking about the deflected goals). Some of this 'amazing talent' we have in the squad need to have a look at themselves and their performances. The game is about players.
If Capello was managing the same group of players I don't think we'd be doing much better, perhaps a few more nil-nils as I think he is an incredibly negative coach.
But anyway, i think it's simplistic and childish to blame one man for the varying reasons we have started badly.
Yes it's frustrating, yes we are all annoyed but of course this is not all down to the manager. Now have a bit of patience, grow some balls and try your fucking hardest to get behind the players and staff to get us through this difficult patch. Of SIX games. SIX.
I called you a massive wanker because you wrote:
"also we should sell Chris Armstrong 2.0 to West ham first opportunity we get.
I will never ever forgive the miss on Saturday. ever.
Just GO. dick."
That is simply pathetic. Darren Bent is a quality player, do you seriously not see it? Still I am sure we can ruin him if we all get on his back so early.
"Just GO. dick." - I still can't believe I read it. I am sure you make plenty of sensible and insightful comments as your mate above seems to think but I find it hard to believe after reading that.
Cheers
Bueller
Yes, saying Darren Bent should leave is very reasonable.
You're the fucking Numpty. Whatever that means
Getting rid of Jol now is suicide. We'll end up in mid-table with if we get rid of him. Maybe he isn't the guy for Spurs in the future. But let him have this season. Getting into Europe two seasons running is no fluke. And this year he has a better squad. Ever heard of a blip?
Bent cost 16.5 and he swung at the thing like a spastic. Any harsh words are fair.
He'll probably score 3 next time out and we can get on with discussing who Levy'll sell him to.
Adebayor looked like an unleashed assassin.
Our lot were mostly 'confused' and 'a bit tired looking'.
Harry,
Yes he cost 16.5 million and yes he missed an easy (ish) chance on Saturday.
I still don't think the childish, spoilt-brat tirade was necessarry.
Sorry for swearing on your excellent and humerous site. Always makes me laugh.
Bueller
is your first name Ferris?
No need to apologise mate...
It's an emotional business.
No, my first name is Darren.
Darren Bent.
Apologies for any unpublished comments this afternoon................................................................Blogger.
cant I see he is a good player?
erm, no.
he runs fast.which is the best I can say about him.
other than that a bit of a headless chicken, with the control and touch of a small child.
imagine defoe, but really really crap.
or alternatively more to the point, imagine Chris Armstrong all over again.
lets get him out of our club, lets recoup some of that wasted money at the first opportunity and get a decent midfield.
darren fucking bent. we never learn do we. at least rasiak had the grace to look embarrassed we paid more than a handful of peanuts for him.
Re:12.23anon
Great to see someone side-stepping the laughability of JGM and sticking the boot in. He's gotten away with far too much drivel recently and he's begining to sound like he enjoys being jolsgonemental more than being a Spurs fan. Come to think of it, he might even agree.
The result so far of Harry's poll shows that the anti-Jol brigade appear to be in the minority. I think this blog might be suffering from the 'local rag' effect. That's when the letters page of any small town newspaper gets more than its fair share of 'Colonel green biro i'm bloody well outraged at all this ninkompoopery so I'll take the opportunity to offload a lifesworth of anger at not getting my own way into this complaint' letters. These readers letters pages can make any small town appear to be populated largely by whinging extremists, but of course they're not, it's just that complainers tend to make the most noise.
When I saw that JGM reckoned on hughes as one of the potential replacements for Jol, that's when I realised he was all keyboard & no hard drive.
Come on the Jol!
Come on the Spurs!
why get sentimental over a bloke who may appear nice on Tv but ultimately is not going to thank you for your support? he is not your 'mate'. he doesnt give a fuck about you.
facts.
We have walked away from 24 games against top 4 clubs with nothing to show for it but a sense of crushing disappointment.
We have been the victims of ridiculous capitulations more times than I care to remember. and thankfully they are generally against our biggest and most gloating rivals. joy.
ridiculous cup exits.
Victims of giant killings
being fucked over by 10 men at home
Bottling top 4 with abject negative displays against to name but one : Sunderland. who went on to be the crowned the worst Prem side ever that very year.
Literally shitting ourselves at West Ham to the amusement of every fucker in the world.
(in fact Has Jol ever beaten a Prem side in any cup?)
The plusses? The really good days?
that would be the one game then. a win against Chelsea.
ONE FUCKING GAME.
yeah cheers jol. these have been heady days indeed.
I can't even be bothered to argue with you.
I read your post, sighed, sunk in my chair and one thought crossed my mind.
Probably never kicked a ball in his life.
I can't work out if you're 12 years old or just hopelessly dellusional.
Bueller
JGM - 5.29
Are you talking about Martin Jol's tenure or the last 15 years?
Bueller
JGM you little monkey, I'm begining to wonder if you're just on a wind up?
Some of your issues are 2 seasons old and have been much improved. And 5th place plus several quarter finals seems not to register with you as any sort of progress, so perhaps your expectations are racing ahead of the teams quality. Beating top 4 sides should be viewed as a challenge not an expectation, have you not seen our squad? If that's a big part of why you think Jol should go then maybe there should be mass redundancies throughout the prem.
Hughes??? Fcuk me, you're ambitious!
oh, h, you don't have to excuse yourself for not posting my comments
that doesn't stop the curse
ahahahah
Nemesis
yet to see a decent coherent argument for jol el.
believe it or not I would give a reasoned argument fair consideration.
Please share with me, its not born out of sentimentality or a desperate hope that giving managers time brings success is it? Ferguson aside all of the top 4 managers achieved instant success.
As to Hughes, here is my logic. it is sound, and not based around a false logic of big name = success (see santini) which I hazard a guess you woukd propose judging by your hughes response?
Hughes has proven himself to be able to organise a team to defend when need be and to play some good football when on the attack.
players close down, know their job and do it.
I would put forward the notion that that is all our squad needs. ie direction and discipline. nothing fancy or groundbreaking.
we have a great squad (obviously Bent aside.) Watching them being mismanaged irks me no end. dealing with set pieces , closing players down and just basic shit like playing to the players strengths (lennon on the fucking left) is basic bread and butter stuff. that we cant do it is a crime.
if we could play to even the sum of our parts we would fly. My point beign we dont need a GREAT manager we just need a competent one.
Now if you have a decent argument lets hear it, dont hide behind psycho analysis bollocks because you cannot provide a decent response.
JGM,
You seem to only concentrate on the negative points. Granted, there are a lot of them. I agree about your points about a great squad being mismanaged, the debatable signing of Bent, but you're only looking at the negatives. And even though the negatives are outweighing the positives right now, let's look at some other facts.
Jol has put is in Europe twice. That's twice running = not fluke, correct?
We started badly last year with a lesser squad and came back.
You think we're sh*t now? What were you like previously when Francis, Santini, Hoddle, Pleat et al were in charge? You must have been pulling your hair out. We couldn't play football unless the other team didn't show up.
Subsequently, when did we have a team that was founded on such excellent talent, not just for now, but for the future? We have such excellent young prospects that if we do have a different manager next year he'll have Jol and Commoli to thank. They've secured our chances of potential future success by acquiring incredible assets.
We've dropped out of all the cups last year in a bad way - i agree. But who put us there? I'd rather we got to a quarter-final than not at all.
We missed out on Champions League football 2 seasons ago when it was in our own hands? But who gave us that chance?
Our recent short term success has triggered our board to consider the increased capacity of our stadium.
Look at our current squad, and the players Jol has brought in. Are they rubbish? No. You can say Bent is sh*t until you're blue in the face, but the fact is that he isn't. He scored more Premier League goals last year than Berbatov. And that was playing with relegated Charlton. He may not be playing like that at the moment, but you don't turn into Rasiak in one summer.
I agree that Jol's subs sometimes leave me needing a drink, and I wonder what goes on at the training ground, but constantly suggesting he should leave is depressing. It's been six games. Jol knows it's a mess, and Spurs will improve because this is a blip, a run of bad form and luck, added with injuries who are only just beginning to play again.
We'll push up the table. With Jol leading the attack.
JGE - great points on Hughes. I see Moyes in exactly the same light too. Also, thanks for the great laughs tonight after a really f'd up day.
I'm thrilled that Jol has done such a great job finding this great young talent - it's just too bad that most every player he assumed or has added to our squad has become a worse player than when he came on board.
Besides Berbatov and Keane, can anybody name one player that is better now than 2 seasons ago?
Steed is a fragment of the player he was at Fulham. Zokora was supposed to be "the maestro", 1+ season later were still waiting for his first quality pass. Lee can't stop anybody dribbling at him anymore or make a clean tackle, and he still cant cross with his left foot. Lennon was unbelievable 2 seasons ago, last year we were all complaining, trying to figure out what happened to him. Dawson was supposed to be the next John Terry, but 2 seasons later he still doesn't get anywhere close to his marks. Jenas is still the exact same shitty player that cant pass, dribble or deliver a quality corner kick. And most importantly, our most promising and rock solid player 3 seasons ago, Robbo, is complete rubbish now and couldn't start for a League 1 team.
I don't want Jol to have the rest of the season to f*k this promising young team up anymore than he has.
I would like to point out a rather fitting bit of commentary that featured in the video (thanks for posting Harry) created by Matsimpsk.
At around 3:10mins, you hear 'Here's Clive Allen...goal....he's gathered up the crumbs, yet again!'
The crumbs need gathering. A replacement needs finding.
But do we wait for the replacement before the inevitable happens? or do we make the changes now, bring Clive 'The Crumb Gatherer' in now and keep searching for a permanent replacement?
el and park lane spurs, you speak wise words, I'm staying in your gang in the playground.
jolsgonemental's new found celebrity status has caused him to loose what little grip he had on reality. expect an appearance on big brother, I'm mental get me out of here or ready steady cook any day now.
DATERAPER
at least JGM is funny, you just scare me. how long are you on earth for?
JGM sucketh de cocketh. He'll never accept Jol, even if he does the impossible and gets you CL footy this season. Ha ha ha ha ha...I just made my self laugh so much, I wet my pants.
Scooch
SS - I'll assume you couldn't think of a player that has improved under Jol, which is why you chose the childish putdown response instead?
There is no need to call daytripper, a fellow yid, a rapist - for no more than holding a more well rounded and informed opinion than your own.
And onto the answer to Daytrippers riddle: which player has improved most during Jols tenure.
it is, of course, Fredi Kanoute.
sooo, what do i win?
Sweet JGM,
I seem to have lost the momentum of this discussion. I began writing a response to your application for a pro Jol argument and realised that all the arguments have pretty much been made at some point on this blog by somebody or other and you've already stated that you haven't ever heard a good one. My view on the man therefor doesn't impress you, ie(inanutshell); he has taken a best of the rest team with a weak midfield to 5th spot twice running, the second year during which they had far more games to play and vastly improved on their previous cup record. All this with a regularly unbalanced side shows in my view a manager with tactical ability but squad problems.
I personally believe that there is not a manager out there who could take this squad into the top 4. I said during the summer that our chances of challenging for a CL place was largely dependent on getting two high quality midfielders. We haven't. I therefore don't believe we're capable of a challenge. Yes Jol doesn't always get it right but I'm certainly not convinced that hughes would do any better. I would happily welcome Ramos but feel that Jol deserves til christmas to sort it out. I'm no apologist for Big Martin. If we're not comfortably in the top half by 1st of jan with a Uefa cup spot looking an almost cert, his dismissal would be fine by me as this would constitute in my mind a definate backward slide.
What I don't wan't is a back to the drawing board situation just because of a bad first 6 games and because Jol has proved over two years to be very capable rather than exceptional. The past few years of improvement hasn't raised my expectations to silly levels or made me impatiently spoilt. I too have my limits however.
All the best,
Go on the Spurs!
I think the 'players not improving' argument against Jol is probably the most pertinent and worrying but without seeing another manager in charge it's difficult to know whether our manager is found wanting or some of the players have found their limits. Who's to say they won't get worse under a different manager?
Time will tell no doubt.
JOLSGONEMENTAL
Carrick was taken from sub used by santini to a decent player by jol, highly regarded by fergie. would you have fergie replaced by hughes?
Lennon owes a lot to jol. he had trouble settling in london and the big fella handled him well.
Keane has vastly improved and matured and has homed himself at spurs, not an easy task for someone who usually changes clubs when they change kits.
Dawsons progress has been a revelation, getting better every day.
Can of worms time here, but i think jenas is now better, not great, but better.
Your bitter overall view of jol is blurring your judgement on the team. look at the last line up with santini and the team now and if you can honestly say we are going backwards then .... well I'm beaten, their are sinister forces at work here.
the fellow yid daytripper regularly rapes the club with outlandish observations.
I think the improved players bit is for the attention of "we were crap at man u" DATEDGRIPER
surely no offence there
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