"Orf with his head!"The inconsistency of the domestic season combined with last night's gut wrenching failure must not be allowed to spill over into an irrational knee jerk calling for Jol's folically challenged bonce on a plate.
Is it just the Internet that is infested with brand new Tottenham fans looking to back a quick winner? If so, they're on the wrong horse as the rest of us know too well.
The salient points are thus: Jol is the best yet and the best bet for the future this club since they were daft enough to part company with Burkinshaw.
The following have all be absent from the campaign so far for varying periods... Mido, King, Jenas, Keane, Lennon, Davids, Tainio and now Berbatov. The club remarkably, is still in the FA and UEFA Cup and far from written off domestically to still attain some class of re entry into European football next season.
There has to be a climb down of expectancy from fans - including me ('We Want More Because We Love You So Much') without any sacrifice of passion and support. There have been tactical foul ups, where Jol has tried to be too sophisticated in his approach. Particularly away. But then there was the beating of Chelsea. Yes, Jol has brought on substitutes too late. So has Benitez. So what? Replace him with who?
We want push and run. We want the Lillywhite shirts flying forward, the thrill factor, the quality goals. They will come. Are we in this for the long haul?
Are WE up to the job?!
118 comments:
Here - too many internet fans or E Fans as I like to call them talking too much rubbish about Jol out and all that. They weren't saying that at the end of last season were they ? FICKLE E FANS. That's all they are.
Top clas teams have top class managers.
Jol had no drive last night and he is yet to win a trophy on the other hand Wenger was full of enthusiasm and drive which reflected on his players.
Jol is not a top class manager and never will be,he will always be a dutch version of Francis or Gross.
Go and get Lippi or someone in the same clas as him in the summer even if Jol wins a trophy or manages to finish the league in the 5th spot again.
Top class Tottenham is not achievable with Jol.
Jol stays end of....
COYS!
How can anyone knock Jol, people forget this is his 1st major job, so he is still learning! I agree with Spurs fans being fickle at times! If we fail to qualify for Euorpe, I will worry though, but dont sack Jol, give him more time, like Fergie got! Jol is a Tottenham man who has got something about him, just needs to learn a bit, like any other manager did
This tie was over when Berbatov went off...saying that we were also without King and Lennon last night which was a big shame. The football was not great last night but they are 3 huge players for us at the moment. It shows the squad isn't where it needs to be but I'm more concerned about our away form in general. We just didn't pass and more importantly, MOVE in the way we know we can. Too many sloppy passes and not enough desire to get into space and have a crack! We certainly have to give Jol the chance to sort it out as he's the best manager we've had for a long time and I'm sure over time will come good.
I wouldnt say Jol out! but i do question if he can take us to the next level.
Our genereal fitness is poor, we have a team that cannot run and lacks movement in every department.
Example: Lastnite Jeans had the ball in midfield, he made a 3ft side pass and then stood still and started walking around yet Jol sees him as our box to box player!!
I dont think Jol can motivate our team and his tactics have been wrong quite a lot this season.
He insists on playing with 2 anchor men in midfield but this is rubbishhhhhhh. You cannot have both your centre mids sitting and not being able to help out in attack.
Overall we have no runners in the team. Robbie Savage is not a good football player but he runs up and down and closes every opponent and shows some steal in midfield... but our boys play like there in the park.
Jol obviously must see this yet fails to make any changes!
Remember the "Ferguson isn't good enough for United" stuff and how he was only a couple of games from the sack?
Give the big guy a chance, it was only cause we overachieved last year SO FAR this season seem a let down
Semi Final of one cup(that we only lost in extra time) still in two other cup competitions and six points off a european place
Two years ago that was dreamland innit?
I for one was not impressed by Jol last season...it was mainly Carrick and large slices of luck that got us to 5th...and I said so then. I keep hearing about Jol being the man, how we are improving under him etc.etc. Harry you posted a chart earlier which showed how we are not improving, but declining and that says it all. If you want to hang on to Jol he has to show improvements in tactics and results and, for me, he shows no sign of learning anything, with the same mistakes repeated time after time. I agree that it would be pointless to replace him right now, not because I think he will achieve anything this season, but merely to give us the best chance of staying out of relegation problems. I think we can forget both cups. By keeping him he has a last chance to show he can learn and improve before the end of the season and it gives the Board time to search for potential replacements if nothing changes so that any new appointment can hit the ground running at the start of next season. If Jol succeeds, and how we measure that is difficult but for me the League is the only true measure, then full marks to him and he buys another season, but if not it's time to move on. Bear in mind that by the start of next season he will have had nearly 3 years in charge and I think Wenger won the league in his second season at Arsenal (not sure about that but it wasn't long). Much as I like Jol's public persona I am tired of hearing the same excuses and platitudes for what amounts to his own incompetence.
I guess that you can take a view that says if you stick with the same manager and your team does not get relegated and has the odd cup run, but never wins anything that is a measure of success (eg:Charlton) but personally I want my team to be challenging at the top within my lifetime (not long to go now) and this is not rocket science....it's all about the manager. If Jol was showing any signs of learning I would support him, but to date he hasn't. Hope he can improve but I don't want to wait 5 years to find out.
I have been of the opinion since the middle of last year that this manager is not for the long term. We still have no midfield after vast sums being spent on players. We are dependent on a 19 year old whippet who may be a quality player in the future and another 19 year old whose claim to fame so far is that he is 2 mtrs high and as slow as the proverbial cart horse. Hud was completely out played over 2 games by the fabric person.
This manager has bought poorly and when he speaks says absolutely nothing worth listening to.
We have seen two poor performances except for 20 mins or so.
On to the next muppet!
Bertie23
And what gives us the right to claim we're a 'top class team' after last night's performance?
Are you sure that Jol cannot make us into a 'top class team'? On what are you basing that - the fact that after 2 seasons we're not top 4?
Jol is a start, he has bags of potential as do we, but far from the finished article. How do you propose that we get a 'top class' manager when we are not top class ourselves?
Tell me really, who would you bring in ? Lippi, do me a favour - why would he touch us with a barge pole ?
Why are we so quick to compare Jol to Wenger fellas ? Why? How much time has Wenger had in the Prem over Jol? How much time has Wenger had to make the Arsenal team truly his? How many 'bad times' has Wenger and his club has supported him!
The argument I usually get back 'Yeah but Wenger won the Double after... etc'
Bully for Wenger. Do we have to be a carbon copy of them down the road? Why can we not do it our own unique way.
For F*ck's sake - just buck up will you all... Jol's done us good - he's not perfect, but nor are Spurs.
I think it was Jim McDuggan that compared Jol to Eriksson in terms of inheriting a good squad and turning them mediocre...
Really? So Jol didn't develop some of those players himself? And aren't Berbatov, BAE and Zokora new to the Prem? Huddlestone's first season? Lennon's first full season?
Give me a break..
Right: we didn't play to our potential last night - but, our 3 best players were missing (King, Berbatov, Lennon) and others have only just returned from injury (Jenas, Keane, Mido...)
Despite all that, from where I was standing behind the goal, we came within a whisker of winning at Cashburden (something no-one else has managed, I believe...)
If either of the two late misses in the last 5 minutes of the 90 had gone it, we would've sealed the tie...
So, keep the faith & get behind your team and its manager: there's still a massive amount to play for this season!!!
C O Y S ! ! !
we need Klinsman as our manager
Well said Danny!
It's so hard watching your team lose. I hated it last night. We just looked so slow, compared to them. We've got a good squad. The best since the Premiership started anyway. We always have to give foreign players time to adapt to the 'English' way of playing, so what's the difference with managers. I seem to remember vengler taking a while. Whoreinio was different. He's playing with someone else's fantasy football team. Ever get the feeling it's all being played out above somewhere!. I digress. Give Jol time, give this new, yes, new squad time. They are young, glasshopper, they will learn. Lennon, the Hudd, Daws..youth at it's best. Hero's in the making. I love this team.
Well said Danny
I hate this board, the owner and the writers....all stupid wankers trying to write stupid articles.
People talking about us getting a top class manager like Lippi are living in cloud cuckoo land, why on earth would Lippi come to Spurs when he can walk into a job with guaranteed Dhampions League football?
As for Wenger winning the league in his second season, he inherited a team with the best defence in the league, the best goal keeper, Ian Wright and Dennis Bergkamp, Arsenal were only in trouble because they had a clueless manager not because the squad was poor.
Jol isn't having a good season, same as a number of our best players, I don't see people yelling to sell Keane and Robinson.
The fact is we've got too many new players with too little Premiership experience and our experienced players just aren't playing well enough.
Danny..i am afraid what you are talking about it a lot of excuses mate.
If we are not top class thats because the manager is not top class himself.
At the end of the day it is the manager puts the team together.
Jol obviously doesnt have what it takes to be a top manager which showed.
His constant excuse is we are tired which is laughable.
Tottenham have bags of money but not spent wisely that is why instead of wasting our millions on Zokora or alike you can bring a top class manager to spend it on someone worth spending.
Alos it is ok to buy kids but sometime you should not forget that you must also have an experienced seasoned pros in the team..selling Davids was just idiocy and dont tell me he wasnt good enough..in fact he was better than anyone on that pitch last night.
Spurs has to move on to the next level..but without Jol.
Bring in Jurgen the German and turn these boys into machines who will pass and move for 90 mins.
Our team is so unfit and has no runners! Thats why we struggle against any team that has pace or gets stuck in!
stupidity
Pure genius in your choice of name, as for your post pffft.
There is no doubt we have the strongest squad since the Gazza/Lineker team under Terry Venables, and probably the best coach since him as well. Daniel Levy is doing his best to further strengthen the squad, but is often thwarted in signing players better than those we already have by competition from teams who are in the champions league and receive the massive subsidy from that, which enables them to offer more to top players - Rosicky and Kuyt are two recent examples. The difficulty in persuading players to move in mid season is an added problem which is why we had no big signings this window.
The worry is that our tactics both off and on the pitch do not reflect the reality of our position in todays football. Off the pitch we should have decided tactically that our main priorities this year were consolidating our league position and progressing in Europe. The league cup should have been used as practice for our reserves, just as most of the 'bigger' teams use it. Our reserves are great, they sure know how to beat Arsenal reserves, and they would have benefitted from playing against Port Vale, Southend etc. Instead, we insist on playing our 'best team' in this competition, and that has added to our apparent lack of energy and probably our injury list. It's inevitable that having lost in extra time last night, we will run out of steam on Sunday and lose to Carricks new mates as well, our 10th league loss this season. On the pitch, we seem to have this fear of conceding a lead, we stop attacking, stop closing down and defend too deeply. We are then pressured by the opposition and inevitably concede. Also, what is Robinson playing at with his aimless kicks out? These tactics have cost us numerous points in the league, and they cost us the first leg against Arsenal. I lost count of how many times Fabregas was on his own in the centre circle during the second half. Everything Arsenal did went through him. Closing him down would have won us the game by itself.
We need to recognise that we cannot compete on four fronts yet. We should choose our battles according to our priorities. On the pitch we should play our attacking game, always press the opposition and never give away possession cheaply. These are the hallmarks of all the sucessful teams above us and if we want to join them, we have to learn these lessons and learn them fast.
i think jol should not have been left back into the dressingroom last night. he should have been sacked on the touch line and given the cab fare home. no tactics, no ambition, no pride. the man can't even fill out a team sheet correctly. And to top it all he gives autographs and photos to the goon fans. the man is crazy.
So you say Jol is the best since Burkinshaw do you?? Let's be clear here Harry - Spurs have the best squad since 1987 and Jol is doing his best to make a team of qulaity individual players into a bunch of losers who can't string two passes together when needed. We miss King, Lennon and Berbs and we have bought about 30 players?? E-Fans - I have had a season ticket for over 10 years and have never seen such a talented bunch o fplayers play so porrly/negatively. So whose fault is that then?? Mine? Yours? Levy's? Not a chance its those two muppets Jol and Hughton. And let's not play silly buggers and compare Ferguson to Jol - Fergie always at least shoed some tactical nouse...
excuse the numerous typos but I feel strongly on ths subject..
ARSENE WENGER INHERITED ONE OF THE BEST SQUADS IN THE LEAGUE, MARTIN JOL INHERITED ONE THAT WAS SHIT!
i think the biggest blow waz letting freddy kanoute go im n bebatove would be rockin the prem!
Don't u find it funny how A lennon became sick on the pre match meal!
hmmmmmmmmmmmm?????????????????????????????????????????????
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHA
jol sad in the home leg he likes the big man little man combo so y didn't he f****ng play mido!
Defoe was lazy some fat man out the crowd could of ran more!
oi irish gooner go back to ur pot of gold.
I have to dig into my pot of gold. I have a trip to Cardiff to organise!!
i no tis aint got anytink to do wti jol leavin bt last nite a fan go arrested for havin a flag!
please understand thayt when people question Jol and say he should go, it doesn't mean kick him up the asre with his belongings in a box, and may we never hear of him again. The simple fact is he's taken us as far as we can go. I think he's a great character. Great in interviews. And maybe great at motivating young players. But he isn't a great manager. He may be 1 day but how long have we got? Another 'hoddle 5 year plan'? There isn't any1 to replace at this time. So lets wait til summer and do the right thing!
irish gooner u tink ur hard bt ur not u puff!
N u no chelsea r gonna demolish u
I wasn't comparing Ferguson to Jol I was comparing the clamour for their dismissal.
I'd just like to think we could all get behind the manager and the team till the end of the season...
and beyond :-)
Another point raised by someone else and I was acutally thinking last night - why can't Jol see that Arsenal play a system and the players are almost irrelevant apart from fabregas.. stick a man on him and they are useless and in both games he let fabregas run the game. Go 10 v 10 (or 9 v 9 outfield) with Fabregas out of the game and we would have won easily.. only a moron cannot see that......
jurgen should be nxt manager but lets not jump to conclusins martins got a long way to go first!
i agree y not stick some1 on fabregas at the home leg he had to much space!
Irish gooner
The word "Caravan" mean anything to you?
well said the tailor i like the way u tink!
you`re right Harry, no kneejerk reactions by the board to sack Jol are needed, instead we have to give him our full backing on Sunday. Do some of these supporters want to see us go the way of the European teams with a new manager every 12-18 months with no stability? the best teams and clubs are built slowly but they are built to last and that is what we are doing. last season was an improvement on the one before and this season, although we are stuttering in the league, can be seen as an improvement on last seasons cup competitions. we are getting there everyone, just be patient.
slagging of jol you mugs. remember gross . francis and graham. we could alway go back too then if you want.you are NOT spurs fans
no u didn't
Its all very well to say that Jol should be given time etc but if a manager cannot motivate his team to have some fucking fight in them then he should go. All the skill in the world will not win matches, you have to have hunger for a battle and to win. All we have is moaners who try to win free kicks instead of ploughing thru the defender to get the ball (keane/defoe). None of those on the pitch last night displayed any fight, Watford would have given them a better game as a one off.
Fabrigas was on the bench for most of the game yesterday
u cant call me a pikey u ****
the irish gooners gone now thank god
I hate days like this. We lose to Arsenal (no big shock there) and all of a sudden Jol has taken us as far as he can, he's not good enough, etc. what a load of crap. If Mido's effort was a couple of inches the other way we would be in the final and praising Jol. Accept the fact that we are still a young team, accept the fact that Jol is a manager who is still learning but definately a huge improvement on anyone we've had in recent years, and accept the fact that we should be waiting another 2 seasons at least before we even discuss replacing him. Get behind Jol, get behind the team and stop fucking moaning!
The fans are mobile, the fans are mobile ( ah, ah, ah) a much more aproppriate tune pinning than with Berbs !
No,Harry, dearest, I'm not fickle and I do believe Jol should go. Who would come? There is only one club who would make Klinsmann come back to Europe and that's...SPURS!! We love him to bits and he owes us big time (I hope you lot still remember what happened). So, invite him to come and end the season and in the Summer we'll see if he stays. With Jurgen we'll have team spirit, attacking football and HAPPINESS. That is what the game should be about. Please Levy, call the man. NOW!!
I am certainly no fan of Wegner but let us deal with the facts and how long he had to turn things around - what this does prove is that tactical know how can dratsically improve a team.
After the resignation of Bruce Rioch in August 1996, there was much speculation in the English press that Wenger would take over. Gérard Houllier, the then technical director of the French Football Federation, recommended Wenger to David Dein in the summer of 1996. Arsenal confirmed his appointment on September 28, 1996 and he officially took up the reins on October 1. Wenger was Arsenal's first manager from outside Great Britain or Ireland, and at the time a relative unknown in England, although he had been previously been touted as a potential Technical Director of the Football Association.
Even before he formally took control of the team, he had already started to shape it in his own way, having requested that the club sign midfielders Patrick Vieira and Rémi Garde. His first match in charge was a 2-0 win over Blackburn Rovers on October 12, 1996, and in his first season at the club, Arsenal finished third and missed out on Champions League qualification on goal difference.
In his second season in charge (1997-98), Arsenal won both the Premiership and FA Cup, the second Double in the club's history; it came after Arsenal made up a twelve point deficit to win the League title with two games to spare. Key to the success was the inherited back four of Tony Adams, Nigel Winterburn, Lee Dixon and Martin Keown, as well as Wenger's new midfield signings of Vieira, Emmanuel Petit and Marc Overmars, and teenage striker Nicolas Anelka's partnership with Dennis Bergkamp.
You laugh as much as You want Irish Goooner. Our time will come and remember, revenge is a dish best served cold.
Back to the subject of the current state of Spurs: We obviously need to do something about our left side as well as finding a solution to central midfield. Besides that I am pretty satisfied with our squad. Only thing beeing is that the step from playing 40 games a season to 60-70 is taking its toll.
Keep the faith in Jol and the players! Steady she goes..
COYS
Allan
Well said the tailor. Last season we did well because everything went through Carrick. This year the only thing that has held us together is Berby (a true star) Without Carrick MJ has had no tactics other than defend deep on a slim lead and/or pump high balls to berby/lennon.
The only reason we've got so far in the Cups is we've played poor quality teams - I've been to them all last night was the first decent team we've played and they trounced us.
The left & right backs are told don't cross the half way line. We have no shape in central midfield. We buy numerous "average" midfielders. We play the long ball to poor old Defoe in Berby's absence, whilst Keane rounds round like a headless chicken arriving 5 mins late for each pass. In the meantime Robinson has forgotten how to catch a ball.
Average team with some potential, but going no further than midtable. Houghton should go if not MJ.
Think we are all romantics at heart. because the big fella is what he is, ie, likeale, intimitdating, honest, loveable roague who would not look out of place outside corner pin at 4 45 making sure away fans knew how to get home, we all seem to have what could be a missguided affection for him. Im fairly sure that if he looked like guy from mr muscle ad (Wenger lovechild) but slightly more tactically astute, we would have been calling for his head en masse long ago.
Dont get me wrong, hate the filth with a passion, but at times we were, outpassed, outmoved and outclassed and worse still despite every effort our players knew it and were resigned to it.
Maybe something worth looking at is to bring someone to assist, a sort of tel v type, more knowledge and wisdom than houghton, more hands on than commoli.
Lets get behind the boys sunday and blow title race open agains manure.
Mr Tailor man, I've supported Spurs for 46 years, had a season ticket for 29. I say without doubt that this is the best squad since 1987, but they still need time. In the paper today Wenger pointed out that the team they put out yesterday has taken five years to put together. Our choice is to be patient and build on what we have or to make another rash change and condemn ourselves to another two transitional seasons before we go through the same revoslving door as we did with Ardiles, Gross, Francis, Graham, and Hoddle
I wish I was a fly in the dressing room to known what the players think of Jol!!!
bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Jol did a good job last year and he's building for the future with the club behind him. The policy of the best young talent from around Europe is a sound one and will hold the club in good stead, but i can understand why it frustrates fans. Arse, ManUSA and Chelski are succesful now, Spurs are not, but then Spurs don't have the finance to compete in the market for players that are the finished article. Spurs fans need to be patient (we've had enough practice!) and understand the strategy behing what the club and manager are trying to do. Arse didn't have an easy ride over the 2 legs, and if Berbatov, Lennon and King had been playing I'm convinced it could easily have been a different story altogether.
Wer'e still in Europe,still in the FA Cup and can still qualify for Europe through the league.If we got rid of Jol under these circumstances I for one would get rid of my season ticket!!!!.
Forget our name for a second, we are a team who before last season had failed to break into the top seven of the Premiership, and a team who have only reached two league cup finals in the last fifteen years.
Lets not turn into sad Newcarshole fans who believe that their club is the greatest.
Last season's top four promise was only there due to Arsenal having a poor season.
Jol has to stay - no top quality manager will want to come to us.
There is a strange and disturbing pattern emerging relating to our dealings with Arsenal... Last season most of the team fell ill in what was commomly named 'Lasagne Gate' by the media leading to Arsenal claiming 4th spot after our brave lads could not overcome a terrible Wet Spam team, and then last night the dreaded tummy bug returned resulting in our beloved wonder kid Aaron Lennon missing the semi final, this after he had come back from injury in sensational form against Southend. To me this truly stinks! Two common factors... Tummy Bugs and Arsenal. There needs to be an enquiry now, it's not all that hard to upset someone's tummy, a drop or two of Glaucoma eye drops will well do the trick! Dirty tricks from Arsenal??? We'll all have to make up our own mind, mine is already made up and it's same old Arsenal always cheating for me I'm afraid!
Matt the very bitter Yid! COYS
for a balanced yiew read Jim Duggan at Top Spurs Editorial .
This is going to creep up after every bad game until the rest of the season. Last season we has a squad that was kept fresh by the lack of fixtures and even with the odd injury Jol could still put out a side with only the odd ringer. This season, in every cup competition eligible (until last night) wobbly in the league and a side which really is still some way off from being as complete as say Man U. In defence we have relied on King and Dawson and its only this window he has brought in a known defender of any real quality. Robinson has been a let down this season, i have a complete lack of confidence any time a team hits a ball from outside the box (we burnt him out like kasey keller) Should Jol Go? I dont this is a option, you Spurs fans who want that obviously cant see whats going with the development of the squad and the process we are going through to get back to where we belong. We have finally beaten chelsea in the league (and a top 4 side at that) We are doing well in europe and we still have every shout of progressing in the FA cup. The league needs some work but for jol this many games must be causing a real headache. Next season will be Jols finest you just have to give him a break. Are you the same people who last season sat there singing his praises because we could have got into the champs league?? Funny but you let us geniune spurs fans down because you are fickle. Sack Jol? - Jog on!!!!!!
I fully agree, as a Tottenham fan since 1967 any talk of taking off Martin Jols head is just a knee jerk reaction from the small minded.
i feel sure that all Spurs fans want flowing football and a full trophy shelf, but just for those that cant remember an unsuccessful Man U it took Fergy over 4 years and nearly cost him his job before the red devils won a bloody thing.
Give MJ a proper chance.
we are not a top 4 club yet, get over it. How can you expect to be succesful without berbatov, lennon and ledley, they're our three best players! it's madness to blame this on Jol. Also, we should sell Jenas before everyone realises how overrated he is. When teemu gets back, you'll see some fire in the midfield again.
Whoever suggested that we should go for Lippi needs to come back down to earth or switch teams, you're dreaming.
Someone who says that Lippi wont come to Spurs is small minded idiot himself.
Lippi today said that he would like to manage a big enough club in the Premiership.
Here is your answer..
Mr Levy just pick up the phone and do the right think..in football mr nice guys dont make winners.
At least not getting players in the window will allow the ones here more time to settle in and the team will not have to get used to more new team mates
Lippi has been giving it the large one about the Chelsea job, there's no way he'd come to Spurs.
Why shouldn't the Club go for the very best managers? Why should we settle for second best?
Lest we forget:
"There's no use being satisfied when things are done wrongly. I want perfection."
"Spurs have got to be the best in
the land, not the second best."
all i can say is a damn good performance last night and are sqaud where not much on average older than arse .yet we still where missing lennon ,king, berb any team missing those three would suffer maybe time to call back wayne routledge and give him a go for cover on lennon ,jol doing a fine job just more patient
Harry Hotspur you either have no technical knowledge about football or have been watching a different team to what i have. I'm not saying Jol should be sacked, but my patience is fast wearing out with him.
1. Why play pretty much the same formation/team that allowed arsenal to come back in the 1st leg?
2. Why play Defoe and Keane up front when that has NEVER worked on numerous other occasions
3. Why continue to persevere with Jenas and Keane.
Last night i missed the starting lineup, Jenas' involvement in the game was so lacklustre that i didn't actually realise he was playing until the 35th minute.
And don't get me started on Keane, some Spurs fans on here blatantly have never played football theirselves or they'd realise how poor Keane is, always out of position, never in the box when required, holding onto the ball way too long and to the point last night where he was dribblng it 20-30 yards back towards our goal on several occasions.
4. It's not just a manager's job to pick formations and starting line-ups, they have to motivate the team and get them into a winning mindset. In my opinion the only blame for bad away form is the manager's. If you think this is wrong then please please please tell me who or what will improve it other than the manager?
Jol has done alot for us and i'm sure is a nice guy, but anyone who has any knowledge of football and watches spurs week after week must be able to see the glaring problems!
Nice on harry, some straight talking at last, Heres a question for you though, Lennon was supposed to have been feeling sick after dinner, it reminds me a bit too much of upton park last season, is someone poisening the tottenham players?
re:3.28pm
"carrick and large slices of luck"!!?
Oh dear god!
I got a feeling of deja vu about this discussion and I've got another feeling it's going to be on again after we are beaten by MU.
Those who cannot adapt die. That's where our management is right now. We need George Smallsman!
(DOn't have a clue, hum? Gotcha!Translate that into German and you'll see)
George Smallsman, the lion king,
Come and save the Spurs team !
Re:3.20pm
"Jol will always be a dutch version on Francis or Gross"??!!
He's already done better. Which european competition was it that both those managers got us into again? I can't remember.
Good god Harry. Where do you find em?
Lennon had a panic attack, I bet, he's just a kid and the fans and manager are spoiling him, so he must have felt the weight on him with king and berby out and the Emirates on sight after that horrid draw. That's another problem: the players need work and silence not fanatic praising. Their heads tend to explode sooner or later.
MISSING PERSON ANNOUNCEMENT
Black male, mid to late twenties, wears a football shirt with 18 on it. Last seen getting on Tottenham team bus. Some reported sightings on a field in North London last night but all unconfirmed. Intrigued by people with flags. Suspected of taking around £25,000 a week under totally false pretences.
If seen please put him on a bus to Birmingham, Liverpool or West London.
7.55
nice one, mate, but old hh is going to hate it: he loves the 18!
Told ya the guy was nothing without Berby( but so are the rest, it seems)
Oh Dimitar, you're our guiding star,please come back or we won't get far!
Martin Jol. What a negative cunt.
Levy and his sporting directors continue to provide Jol with the best platform a Spurs manager has had for donkeys.
He still cant string two wins together.
Are we going to watch Jol fritter away a golden opportunity liek Sven managed with our 'golden' generation?
I still havent got over Jol throwing points away last season with negative containing tactics (hello 1-1 Sunderland).
Danny and the others who have commented similarly are on the right track. Alex Ferguson was given time. Since Burkinshaw we haven't given anyone time. Jol is the first man who has even remotely looked like bringing back the glory days and he should be given another couple of years without sniping at him. Only then will we see the true potential of some of the fabulous youngsters being fulfilled. Keep your nerve guys!
http://www.topspurs.com/jmdview.htm
I read it and wept. Jols record is only equivalent to that of Francis.
and Jol has better backing and a better squad.
jiggyowen -
1. So did you want Jol to field a different team from the first half of the 1st leg where we were largely excellent, or... a different one from the second...
2. My understanding was that Keane and Defoe were preferred over Mido because a) Berba was out b)they were deemed to have the better form. Mido's goal was real class. You could see in the slo mo he knew it was in the moment he hit it. What a sweet touch.
3. Jenas was clearly just back from injury and my own view on how ineffective he was lies with the lack of creative shape our midfield adopted. IE no left wing and no dynamic movement. Hence all the rubbish tight/ overhit no good passes.
4.Motivation and mindset. Mmmn. Are you genuinely telling me that jersey on their back and more the average chap earns pa in their account pcm isn't enough?
I see your point and I don't know the answer. Team 'X' goes out and looks fab for 45 minutes and then the same team plays like numpties for the second half in the same game.
Robinson tells the press that Jol told them to go out and more of the same.
Presuming he isn't lying, the only variable is the opposition / extreme weather conditions.
Against the current Champions, team 'X' went out and did the 'business' in both halves. Pretty much the best available players in all games and same manager.
I appreciate you're hurt upset, but jumping up and down shouting 'Harry you have no technical knowledge!' 'Excuses! Excuses!' may be therapeutic, but isn't a long term answer.
Nor is, and I appreciate that you didn't actually suggest it, an LCD fuelled cry of Klinsmann / Lippi!
My plan?
A well stocked fridge and the landline pulled out from 4pm Sunday.
Keep it Tottenham.
HH
PS
Jim Duggan spamming HH.
Praise indeed.
JOL STAYS. End OF!!!
I thought you got it spot on with this post Harry, We spent virtually the whole 90's swapping managers every 5 minutes and where did we get? Not to the continent that's for sure.
*cue a million posts about 'He's had 3 seasons now!' even though he hasnt
To quote your article:
"Jol is the best yet and the best bet for the future this club since they were daft enough to part company with Burkinshaw."
Alex Fergusson won nothing in his first 3 years at Man U.
Jol can better that as we won the Peace Cup last year.
So as well-balanced, rational and non-reactionary Spurs supporters we need to be:
P A T I E N T ! ! !
COYS.
We should give Jol time.
Just like Leeds did with O'Leary.
No its time to go. He is way out of his depth. We have been in a bad run of form for nearly a year. His team selection and use of substitutes is appalling. He does not seem to know what he is doing from one day to the next. He talks a good job but that is all he is; a good honest journeyman. If you want safe mediocrity then he is yer man. If you want to win anything then move him on.
Yes Ferguson was given time but he was hired on the back of great success at Aberdeen. He had actually already won a European trophy.
Jol has managed a team that came near the top of some Dutch second string league. He is a first rate coach of second rate players. That's the difference.
Out him on the same boat as Davids.
In my opinion, I feel his hands are tied. We are stuck in limbo land cause we can attract good players but not the the quality that will take us to the next level. Left wing is a problem and if Pedersen had chosen us above Slackburn it would've been solved. Up front it seemed evident to me that Defoe and Keane don't really get on that well, with Keano being captain it was possibly a bit frosty considering Defoe has been scoring. All this talk of Jol going is wrong, had we won three more away games we'd be knocking on the door of Champions League. It's all a bit premature considering we got our highest finish last year and we still got 2 cup's to go, not forgetting beating glorious chelski. We don't want another Francis/Gross situation. Had Lennon and Berbatov been on it would've been different. All good thing's come to those who wait!
Come On You Spurs!!!
When spurs played with Berbatov in the first leg it was great and arsenal struggled. He should have been replaced by mido when he was injured.
I think Keane should concentrate on his own job in the team and contribute like we know he can ( spends too much time telling others what to do and getting others agitated).
Jol was at fault in the first leg and I can still hear the gooners singing (2-0 and you f***** it up).
In the second leg I thought jol/spurs almost got it right with the personnel he had but could have played higher up the pitch.
Arsenal fell to pieces in the last 10 minutes (when mido come on - funny that. Although wenger did adjust after the equliser and also, spurs faded).
I felt over the 2 legs - arsenals' movement and passing was the best I've seen this season ( even balls over the top were weighted and angled perfectly so that the pass favoured the arsenal attacker).
Arsenals' team structure/shape and at times 'psyhcic' understanding of each other was too much for spurs' bigger heart.
BUT
Put it another way if wenger had the spurs team for a year, jol had those kids for a year and replay the two games.
I think wengers team would win easily.
Yeah - I'm fickle. I'm peed off with seeing the starting line up I don't agree with, the substitutions too late or ineffective. Still no bleeding left midfielder. Malbranque is great for 65 minutes then bring on Jenas. Zokora is not playing the way he did in the world cup (did some great last gasp tackles last night but he didn't have that drive. Huddlestone was needed last night if we only started with defoe/keane.
I'm starting to think like every England fan with Sven.
PLAY TO YOUR STRENGTHS AND WHAT EVERYONE IS HAPPY WITH (4-4-2 big man/little man) YOU SAID IT JOL.
Isn't that why you have MIDO to cover for BERBATOV. Oh I forgot, you've had a little falling out so you thought playing keane when you had the scum on the ropes is a good idea.
JOL - SORT IT OUT!!!!!
I'll be happy when we have our key players back but f.f.s we need to play to our strengths, with confidence and a SYSTEM that any player can slot into.
Harry - I love you more every minute.
Mesmo
you lot are all twats, sat behind keyboards slating the team...its selfish and self-pitying to start lashing out against jol or the team. The real spurs fans will take the rough with the smooth and understand that it takes these shady patches to be able to enjoy the moments of quality
5 games against Arsenal
3 of them, Spurs take the lead after attacking Arsenal and having them on the run. Jol then switches to trying to defend the lead and as a result Arsenal are all over Spurs and equalise all 3 times.
1 of them, Spurs start out defensive and are quickly beaten with 3 (albeit dodgy) goals
1 of them, Spurs start out defensive even though they need to score, keep it 0-0 for around 78 minutes, go 1-0 down and only then make the substitutions they should have made a lot earlier - namely Huddlestone and Mido on (Jol laughably wanted to bring on Lee instead of them but couldn't because he wasn't on the substitutes list). Extra time and Spurs need to score. Do they try? No. They go another goal down and have 15 minutes left to score. Do they try? No. Instead they gift yet another goal to Arse with pathetic excuses at defending.
In summary, Jol does not learn from his mistakes and keeps thinking trying to defend a lead and allowing Arsenal to attack is a good idea. He should learn from Bolton. They have Arsenal figured out.
in 2 weeks it can be all over, but we'll be happy to keep jol.
stupidity rules !
The only thing we will have lost is a few more fickle fans..Damn shame!
1. Not an e-fan, been going to watch Spurs since I nagged my dad to give up his season ticket to Upton Park and take his 8 year old to see the 'hotspurs' in 1963.
2. Before Jol was appointed (in a rush after Santini's exit) I said he was a coach NOT a manager.
3. His record is almost identical to Gerry Francis - and he was booted out after a 4-0 home defeat by the scousers.
4. Hughton has too much influence.
5. A mid-season sacking after a cup semi-final defeat is stupid.
6. The Board should be lining up a 'tactitian' to come in as Jol's boss for 2007/2008 and giving Hughton a P.45 in the summer.
7. It's no good comparing us to the scum - they are streets ahead in style, potential, fitness, tactical know-how,stadium, merchandising... BUT they are the benchmark we should aspire to.
8. It is fair to cite injuries as a big contributing factor to some of our poor performances. But surely that is why we have a squad?n
I too saw my first gane in 1963 and the frustration currently is too much to bear.
Your point 7 is spot on. Aresenal are better than us in every respect. In fact so far behind are we that the local derby against them has lost its gloss because you just know that we ain't gonna win. Even against their reserves.
It looked like men against boys on Wednesday. Trouble was we looked like the boys, constantly losing out on loose balls and muscled out of it all over the pitch, whilst they, the boys, played like men.
Jol is a smashing fella but we won't win anythig with him around. I agree with the comment about about Hughton too. Clive Allen has done a good job with the reserves give him a go bring in Sam Allardyce at the earliest opportunity to run the show.
Sam Allardyce....rofl
You'd think that with all of the comments on here that you lot got relegated.
This is the 1st season that you have played in Europe for quite a while and have had decent cup runs as well, so you have probably already equaled the number of games that you played last year. So you are going to have more injuries and rely on players too much who will probably dip in form from being overplayed. So have patience as the players get adjusted to playing alot more. They will probably be even better next year as a result of it.
Jol is a good manager and hasn't been at Spurs for long, so give the man a chance. He has done good business so far - Lennon, promoting Huddlestone, Berbatov.
There are too many fans here saying that he should be out because he fell at the Semi-Final of a cup??! That sounds almost as ridiculous as the sack-Wengers from the fickle Arsenal fans last year.
7.39...
Stop saying Arsenal reserves!! That statement is wrong and you know it. The team they put out would have given Barcelona a run for their money.
Seems like we have a long term solution to our left-hand side :-)
http://www.tottenhamhotspur.com/news/
articles/parrettjoins.html
first game I went to was '67 & Season Ticket holder.
Current tactics (I use the term loosely) are defensive minded in the extreme - was it Santini or MJ and Houghton who have instilled this in the team.
Talent is there but there is no shape on the field.
Favourites keep being picked (Keane!)
Substitutions are made too late - and more often than not wrong.
Who carries responsibility for tactics, shape, selection and substitutions - surely the manager.
That arsenal team hammered liverpool and in that respect spurs didn't do too badly.
I agree that on the night in the second leg arsenal would have beaten most top european sides also.
I just want spurs to play to their strengths. arsenal played 442, we know jol prefers the big/little combo up front and for half an hour over two legs we played that way and gave arsenal problems.........
Ilike Jol but we were embarrassed by a load of kids - regardless of how god they are - they are not first team regulars, unlike our team. Injuries - so what! that's why we have one of the biggest teams in the Prem. We should be able to bring people in without worrying if they're going to cut it. We couldn't string a f_cking sentence together on Weds. We miss Carrick - which will be blatently obvious on Sunday - any wonder why they're top of the league?!! Hud is good but too slow, Jenas was lazy, Keane can't head a ball, Rocha seemingly can't use his feet, Robinson who kept us in games last year is having an awful season, we missed Lennon, badly missed Berbatov, we need more service to Defoe, Zokora is taking too long to settle (Eric Djemba Djemba springs to mind!),Assou whatever is not good enough. The only saving grace was Chimbonda who I think has been the best player all season for us - let's hope he doesn't hand in a transfer request at the end of the season!
Moving forward, Martin Jol has to stay but has to start learning from other managers - i.e. Mourinho, Ferguson, Wegner. Losing or drawing against poor teams is not acceptable (i.e Newcastle, Fulham). We are the Tottenham and we are the best - let's get back to embarrassing teams with our passing range, our skill and the defence (last season). This team are one of the best we've had for a long time and unless we start believing it and Jol starts utilising it a bit better, the likes of Chimbonda, Berbatov, Defoe, Dawson, King, etc will be off to a team that can win trophies.
To dare is to do - so let's f_'''''g dare!
I wonder what you very intelligent fans do when you're bleeding? Do you stop it or do you let yourselves bleed to death?
Fickle is your ass, pussies!
"As for Wenger winning the league in his second season, he inherited a team with the best defence in the league, the best goal keeper, Ian Wright and Dennis Bergkamp. Arsenal were only in trouble because they had a clueless manager not because the squad was poor."
I can't remember who posted this but surely the last sentence says it all
Dont be silly now ,why would we want to sack the big cuddly bear for?.Jol has been a godsend for tottenham he's been voted dutch coach of the year an award that rijkaard never won and look at him now,and the dutch cups with a very small team in holland,and a year before he joined us manchester united were looking at him as fergie's no 2 so he's well known in european football and was the big factor in berba joining us.Right our squad is remarkably stronger than the days of poyet,redknapp,anderton, and enic have invested heavily in the club it's all about time it aint gonna happen overnight.Im dissapointed we haven't improved on our league form from last year but there is still 15 games left so time for a surge up to the top 6,but consistency is a key espeically away from home,but the signs are there at home that we can be a top 5 club we have ripped teams to pieces at times and maybe next year once the squad has had a season together the consistency will come.I would like to see him stay here to see this exciting young group fill its potential and we have got some good players and didier zokora will come good and so will rocha both quality players and with lennon and huddlestone we have 2 of englands brightest prospects so things are not that bad.
On the other side jol has shown some weakness especially where the midfield is concerned he needs to find that right blend and try to stick with it fitness permitting and the very boring tactics he apply's away from home we have shown we cant sit on a 1 goal lead and just hold out we play better when we attack teams we have very attack minded players in the team so why play so negative away from home i know you need to keep your shape a lot more but there seems to be no balance between attacking and defending away from home we struggle to get shots on goal yet we have the players playing who do that at home so my point is, is it the players or jol who crumble away from the lane, we have had various blunders from our players this year that has costs us vital points and this isn't down to jol surely.COYS were all going on a european tour, european tour...
were shit, we av been in my whole lifetime and i think we will till the day i die...then the boys will probably go unbeaten 4 a season an do the treble the following season! even if we were spending the money chelsae were we'd still be crap! i swear! think its something to do with white shirts navy shorts cos england are just as shit! how many assists u think rocha will get sunday? lol! the good thing is the fact i werent born in2 a family who supports west ham! na...semi joking, jus sick of looking world class 1 week & like were struggling to stay in in leauge 2 the next!!! COYS!
I am 100% behind the big Jol man.....
Martin has done great things with help of a decent backroom team, chris has his part to play and i believe he does it well.
It was an away game with a team that has been missing its captain and is trying to adjust to some changes.
It is a lot further than we have got in recent seasons and we are doing ok whilst having a poorish period....
We have seen far too many managers come and go. We lose Jol and whose to say we wont get another Christain Gross.... Give the man time.
He's doing just grand.
I love Matin Jol... and Martin Jol loves me!
COYS!!!
I am 110% behind big MJ, but our performances need to improve. we need an enfrcer in the middle of the park aswell somebody who will get in the faces of the opposition just like davids dd last season. maybe a Nolan at Bolton, or a Barton At City?
Whats the matter with the new bread of Spurs fans
are they secretly wishing they were Chelski, Ars*scum of southern Mancs fans craving instant success, well that dont happen here !! I go back to the mid 70's supporting my beloved Spurs and Keith Burkinshaw took us down in need to build a team on the moral of a good promotion and then on to greatness for a good few years after. Even managing to hold on to our best players back then.Jol is building, we sacrificed cups last year for league spot, this year were trying the cups. I'm happy with that, champions league doesn't really excite me that much and all the utter bollocks that goes with it, pressure, high expectations, slagging from press when it goes wrong! Remember we are not a Chelski or a Manc with bottemless bank accounts. Admire us for what we stand for, that is proud and strong to the end, through good times and the hard times. Support Spurs,the team, the manager, his staff and everyone else connected with this great club, they believe and i believe they are doing there best. All we are lacking is a midfielder with the guts to get stuck in and kick arse and bring fear into the opposition. Probably wont get us many points in the fair play league though !! RICHARD LYONS THFC
ok, HH, here's a new point for discussion: King is out for two more months. I've been saying we need a new vice captain to take over while he's away. Berby is back Sunday ( thank God) and I say he should be given the armband right now.
Or perhaps you gents who don't like to change anything will prefer the lack of leadership we are enjoying (masochists, aren't we?).There's no point on singing Berby's praises because we all know how important he is. It's not a question of fan hype, it's simply factual.
I say the one who has the responsability must have the authority.
Well, what say you?
truelovespurs
So the argument for keeping Jol is that Utd kept Ferguson and now are good?
Faultless logic. The parallels are astounding. How can that logic fail you ask.
I have yet to see ANY other argument...no one is backing him for his tactically nous, his ability to motivate a team (in a SEMI FINAL against our biggest rivals no less) or his wiley use of substitutes? What about his 'this will fool em they wont be expecting this' team selections..ho ho ho.
So WHAT exactly are you backing him for? Please no more tub thumping, lets get behind them wank it hasnt done us any good during my lifetime. One relatively decent season notable for finishing slightly above Blackburn Rovers?
Seems to me that this 'support Jol no matter what attitude' comes from the same school of misplaced hope that Robbo lives by everytime he punts a long ball to the two smallest front men in the prem.
Anyone who doubts Jols negativity need to look no further than the post '1-1 against 10 men Fulham' quotes. We should send Jol to Iraq as a peacekeeper, he will install deject apathy amongst all parties inside a week.
so is this the most posted blog topic in your infancy harry? cant believe the difference in opinions actually. not sure where i stand to be honest, but starting to err on the side that jol is tactically naive......
Dannyboy - second most. a Cheatski 'fans are racist' got about twice as many hits but half the comments... and a fraction of the passion.
I'm think I'm in the same boat as you mate. Infuriated by some of the 'schoolboy' mistakes of BMJ, but at the same time intolerant of a seemingly endless stream of 'so called online Spurs fans' who seem to have fallen out of the sky in the last 24 months.
This 'unhappy mob' have either not weathered the years of thankless support we have or they are in denial.
Even Topspurs, the (self appointed)
revered dinosaur of Yid bastions is running a ridiculous piece comparing Francis and Jol based more upon f*ckwit numerology than common sense. I could weep.
I won't deny I'm hurt and angry, but it's not the first time for me. For many in replica shirts, swing tickets still swinging, it's the first time. They're not unwelcome, just green.
I watched at the win against Anderlecht all those years ago and when we did, I thought my heart would explode. Lillywhite shirts blazing in Europe. Dad keeping the London Evening Standard backpage for me as a 'real' souvenir.
That team was built by KB and it didn't happen in two seasons....
Jol out?
Yeah! We the undersigned Pilchards who ought to support Chelsea/Arsenal/Man Ure/etc Say Yes!
anderlecht at home? now that was a real 'team'. i was there too and can relate to the heart exploding comment. compare that also to the first 45 minutes against ajax i think, circa 1983. hoddle v cryuff. now that game totally blew me away, 4 - 0 up at half time, won 4 -2 and if i remember right, beat them 2 - 0 away. reminiscing? maybe. at the same time, the current team are a million miles away from the team of the early 80's. now that team made me proud to be a spurs fan, the current team makes me proud to be a spurs fan of past gone seasons. come on BMJ, prove all the doubters wrong. please.
Always....................
COYS
sorry, it was 4 - 2 against feyenoord, but you get my drift. i'm not going to be able to sleep now - archibald, crooks, hoddle, galvin, villa, ardiles, roberts, perryman, miller, parks, thomas, mabbutt et al. that was a team. they didnt need tactics, they just went out and entertained. they didn't earn a kings ransom every week. they were proud to wear the lilywhite shirt. and for all those spurs fans who have 'fell from the clouds in the last 24 months' theres a famous spurs song - and if you know your history, its enough to make your heart go woah woah woah woah, we dont care what the other teams say, and what the hell do we care, for we only know, that theres gonna be a show, and the tottenham hotspur will be there.
i may have veered off the said subject, but f*ck, those were the days. bring them back BMJ.
COYS
If you (like me ) want those days back then we need a former player like venables back.
He'd just got the team to click and were hammering teams out of sight when they got rid of him.
Damn immigrant get off the interenet you're too bloody big for it anyhow.
That must be some two bob Paddy Irishman speaking!
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