Thursday, September 06, 2007

Tottenham's Martin Jol Quotes: Analyse These!



In a charity appearance for the Enfield Working Mens Club in conjunction with The Tottenham Supporters Trust, Martin 'Death Row' Jol & Chris 'The Jotter' Hughton met in an oral tag team wrestle with a select group of handpicked fans. Falls? Submissions? You tell me.


**********


"I was very disappointed with what happened but I have moved on. I promise I'm not going anywhere. I have two years left on my contract and I would like to think that I will see those years out."


Harry: Fighting talk. Is he going to reflect that tactically or are we in for more mistakes? Harry and others have asked you nicely to be brave on several occasions now, Martin...





"I told the chairman [Daniel Levy] that if I'm not sitting in the dug-out I will be sitting in the stands as a fan because that's what I am. He won't get rid of me that easily.


Harry: Great quote. But is that spin or is Jol a soldier?





"I used to wave at the fans quite quickly when they sang my name, but now I leave it a while so the board can see and hear it."


Harry:...I'd probably do the same.





"I am sh**ting myself every time someone has a corner against us. We know it's not right but we are working on it twice a week so it should get better. "


Harry: 'In the words of Arthur Daley, "Oh my good gawd,"
Twice a week. Twice a week? What's the hold up? Flower arranging classes conflicting with deportment classes................no 'window?'
This is surreal.
At best, surreal.
These 'Herberts are on £20,000 pwk upwards and he's saying it's, ' Not great there.... 'X' ...but we'll have another go NEXT Tuesday'???
'Holy Easy Life, Batman!'



""I would NEVER allow anyone to tell me who to buy and who to pick.I decide who comes in and who is sold"

Harry: Interesting quote. Directly contradicts all previous 'Jol held hostage to Bent purchase' etc supposed quotes...





"I'm a fighter, not a lover. Ah, I hope my Missus didn't hear me say that"

Harry: Nice bitta Jol.




"Our form does need to be sorted out, it's not good enough. I'm very, very miserable because we have only won one of five games and it's not good enough"
Harry: Mmnnn.










100 comments:

Anonymous said...

no... well... it'sh really dishappointing. we have to do better.

Anonymous said...

Harry - quick sycophant comment for you mate -this blog is a fucking gift for spurs fans mate. Keep up the the good work. The PL near me love you!

Anonymous said...

whats the point of this article?
Any information we did not know already?
Martin can qouote what he likes, all your blogs are copies from information already shown on newsnow earlier in the day.
Only difference is every time someone clicks on your blog you make money!

Anonymous said...

Ghaly broadcast a few weeks ago what could be seen last season, especially in cup games why the players are not fit enough.He quipped something along he lines that he'd not had to do lots of running at Spurs in his short peek into the Birmingham City training regime. Twice a week working on our defence. Jol's comment about waiting to wave to the fans shouts out the chasm that now is ever widening between him and the board seemingly!
I read somewhere that Fabio Capello's agent approached Spurs about Jol's position and the board said no.
Koeman for Jol is this weeks rumour/swap. Both average managers.
I said 2 seasons ago that Jol was not the real deal and I'm even surer now.
Spurs should have bitten Capello's agent's hand off.

Anonymous said...

Fabio Capello's agent approached Spurs about Jol's position.
Where did you read that?

Anonymous said...

I read it about 2 days after Ramos had made his apparently undesired statement about the "dizzying offer" to the Spanish press. I forget which website it was but it mentioned that Capello had been in London and that his agent had met Levy near Heathrow as Capello was only in London for a few hours and I was surprised not to hear anything further although I think all news was dominated by Kelmseys mutterings.

Anonymous said...

Same old blaggin by jol ! I wish someone would point out to him to stop blaming set pieces and defending when its his job to sort these things. these are the same things that have been happening for 2 years and he's like "were training at it twice a week" wtf does this fella puff some of hollands finest skunk or what!

Park Lane Spurs said...

Two times a week for set piece training is amazing. That really blows me away. Surely, it should be every training session.

Jol: "No one goesh home until we learn to defend."

Robbo: "Come off it Mart!"

Jol: "Eshpechially you, Paul."

Harry Hotspur said...

8.31 Anon of course.........

You absolute retard.

Am I makning money? Yeah. If you buy a fucking product.

What am I? A clickathon for a hospice?

Take your lack of wit, critique and IQ and do one. You're scared and worse yet BORING.

Next...........

Anonymous said...

it is amazing park lane when you consider how awful we were at set pieces all last year and he still aint sorted it, the blokes a fu**ing con man!

Anonymous said...

I personally think this site is sound, i only get a bit of time to get on these sites in the evenings with work n shit, n i like the way ya can just put your comment n thats that, some of the other sites by the time you have gone through the registering rigmarol more times than not ive forgotten what i was goin to say anyway so i dont bother!

4 Ever Hopeful said...

Anon 8.31 - Good news, logging on to this site is NOT compulsory.

Park Lane Spurs said...

Taxi for Anon 8.31

Anonymous said...

In managemant terms, Martin Jol is the dutch version of Kevin Keegan.
I love the guy but, sadly, I don't think he's going to get us into the CL.
The squad we have assembled has great potential, and we need to get a guy in who can realise this potential before we lose our momentum.
We are currently falling behind the likes of Everton, nevermind the top 4. When you look at what someone like Moyes has done with less resources, you have to wonder why we're not stronger. From what I have witnessed, we are technically brilliant, but tactically schoolboy.

Anonymous said...

Go on Harry kick the shit of him fucking twat...

Great quotes... thankyou. Don't see them on Reuters.. so thankyou.

Anonymous said...

hmm, funny how things get read one way and remembered another, i remember ghaly saying that birmingham didnt have the players to stay up, and bruce saying he didnt run much at spurs, not that ghaly had said he didnt run much, but that was what got reported. i also remember that capello was in london on footy business and it had been rumoured that spurs had approached him, something that very promptly got denied by both parties. I guess if you read something often enough you start to believe it whatever it is. And one last point, just because a manager gets a small budget and reletive success, doesnt mean they can hack it at prestige clubs, we already did the christian gross / gerry francis thing thanks

elik said...

9.06 Well said.

elk said...

ha ha I'm pissed...

jolsgonemental said...

Kevin Keegan got Newcastle into the champions league.

i would however sometimes like to see jol fall off a bike.

Anonymous said...

JGM

Do you admit to trying to trying to de-stablise this club then?

Anonymous said...

gross/francis and JOL u mean he'd only done ok with shit teams in holland on a small perse so may as well include him as well eh! its funny you mention francis coz under him we lokked like gettin somewhere peaked at the top of his ability then fell down which is what will happen if jol remains ,so jol n francis are very similar in the way that they both could get us better than the crap but cant take us a step more.

jolsgonemental said...

You do all realise he literally means two corners a week dont you.

'jobs a good un chris, see they didnt concede once, i think we have cracked it. lets pack up and go have a game of scrabble.'

Ian S said...

Thanks for the info Harry. Had seen some of those comments, but not all of them.

As a hardened Jol-fan, who will be trying to encourage as many rounds of "there's only one Martin Jol" as I can muster next Saturday (admittedly from lower west, which is a bit of a handicap), I am a bit disappointed to hear that Martin is "shitting" himself as much as we are whenever a corner comes in. He was obviously trying to be funny, but is in danger of becoming a caricature of himself.

Martin, you are the boss. Get a decent defensive coach, call them in for extra sessions, and sort it out.

I fear "twice a week" may come back to haunt him, and am sure that Levy, Comolli and Kemsley will have stored that phrase away ready for regurgitation :(

Anonymous said...

when will the people with jol tinted glasses wake up n smell the coffee? do you support spurs or Martin jol? what will it take for you to change your mind? flunking all the cup games again ?managing 5th if we are lucky? more games thrown away through negativity?Jolites seem to always say if we change the manager we wont get 4th or win anything etc ..but numpty's were still making the same mistakes as when jol started! so we aint gonna do shit with him there either and unlike jol id rather have a gamble n get someone cappable of pulling it off in a season that could be a major decider in our future(berba n others leaving etc). if we dont the players will get us 5th or 6th coz they are pretty good players,we will do well in the cups til we meet someone good then fuck up and prob mainly due to some twitchy pant decision from our manager. its when it really matters that the coach can make the differance Jol def makes a differance by usualy giving the other team the initiative, hes not brave enough or possitive enough to pull it off end of!
bty

Anonymous said...

rotten quote mates

dannyboy said...

Holy blimey Mr Hotspur.
Don't think I've read you swear without disguising the word! Slap the anonymous bitch up.

JGM - how I wish my humour was as sharp as your blunt instrument ;-)

On the interview; I just want him to sort things out. Saturday week v the scum is turning into a massive game for us and HIM. What a game to prove your critics wrong. Go on Big Martin Jol.

By the way, I read on another site from a scum monkey we are considered the most despised fans in the land!! Really?! Gooner twat.

COYS

Anonymous said...

seeing the things jol has been coming out with lately blaming every man and dog for what is going on and saying things that are clearly under his job title to be responsible for, i can only think that if you give a con man enough rope he will hang him self!
bty

Harry Hotspur said...

Dannyboy - it's getting emotional!

jolsgonemental said...

8:18 & 8:31

and the ying-yang balance is restored.

Anonymous said...

lol

dannyboy said...

bty

anything good to say about Spurs?
as someone else said, it's not compulsory to visit this 1st class site.

coys

Anonymous said...

Saw someone write on hear that Jol is a dutch version of Kevin Keegan!?!?
Now I reckon those Geordies would love Kev back as they didn't have that bad a time under him.
I think that some of you really do need to take a reality check on the Spurs situation & remember that it is only because of the current regime that we have such a level of expectation & we are not guaranteed success but I'm still happy with our team & that we will in time have success. Patience is all that is needed.
You all must have seen enough in the last 2 games to see how well we're playing??
Also 2 of our new signings look real good Kaboul & Bale both look worth their price tag so far!!!!

jolsgonemental said...

bty seems to be talking about Jol not Tottenham.

Jol isnt Spurs, he is an employee of Spurs.. And I would guess he wont even be that on the 16th September.

dannyboy said...

jgm

love your optimism.
next....

Anonymous said...

Where are all the Jol supporters? The mood is changing, perhaps we're getting ourselves ready for the inevitable. In the meantime Jol's talking himself into a corner (no pun)

Wherestheanykey said...

Always enjoy the posts Harry! Just a curve ball for future thought. It's not a statement more an open question which I can't decide the answer too:

Our inability to close out games has been highlighted umpteen times in the last 18 months and is glaringly obvious.

A combination of poor keeping, poor defending from simple set pieces and a tendency for negative tactics, midfielders goin awol and a 'bottle it' attitude don't help. However we all also know that between Jol/Comolli/Levy (whoever actual buys the players - so probably Comolli) the READY MADE defensive enforcer we need RIGHT NOW was never really purchased (I really like Hudd, but he isn't this tpye of player - yet!).

My question is IF (BIG BIG IF) our captain fantastic ever comes back to playing regularly, by which point I feel Dawson and Kaboul (who will prove to be a quality buy) will be solid in performing their function, could we see any benefit in begrudgingly acknolodging that Pleat & Sven had a point and that Ledley could perform a valuable function in midfield?

It's a long winded biggie and I can see lots of holes already, but think about it and pass thought if you get 5 mate.

Cheers & keep up the good work!

Ian S said...

wherestheanykey (great name btw) - I agree with you. We desperately need a defensive mf, and I think Ledley (or perhaps even Kaboul, with his powerful long-range shooting) could well fill that role when the King returns. Could well be one of the very final pieces in the jigsaw IMHO.

EL said...

Dear sweet JGM,

Who do you guess will be in the hot seat to replace Jol come sept 16th?

Anonymous said...

danny boy as someone said i was talking about jol not spurs, thought that was obvious!ive got plenty of good things to say about spurs but not jol , b4 ya give it any of the usual jolite comments about champ man ,im not real fan etc i sit in the parklane n get to 5or6 away games + cup games so i am a SPURS fan but have seen enough of jol to realise he aint gonna change so aint gonna improve, ive said on here before the turning point for me was last season seein the boys away at sheff utd, jol's tactics that day were dire to say the least ,he then went on to fuck up the cup games chelski,arse , im a minority where i sit as everyone is jol fans but as i said im a spurs fan and thats that,people like jol come and go the only constant is us the fans n maybe the gold cockeral on the roof! i simply believe that jol aint up 2 it , i dont dis like him or anything else but i dont think he's the best for spurs imvho and thats what i want for our club ok?
bty

Park Lane Spurs said...

I'm beginning to think this season is make or break for Jol, even though he has 2 years on his contract. I wonder whether he even wants to stay beyond this season after all the sh*t that's gone on.

I reckon he'll stay for the whole season, even if we don't win anything or get Champions League football. But at the end of the season, it'll be decision time for either Jol or the board.

Still a while to go though, and while the Big Man is in charge, let's get behind him. He is, after all, leading our beloved club. And whether you love him or hate him, think he's a tactical genius or Ardilles in disguise, he absolutely needs our support 100%.

COME ON YOU GLORIOUS, GLORIOUS SPURS

Anonymous said...

ps i would love to be wrong n we beat the scum n go on r way with jol growing some balls n realising a football pitch is the same anywhere n there is the same 3pnts on offer every game! that would be quality!(would love jol to do the business)but with or withought him we need to get with the big boys as soon as poss because every year we don't it gets harder. imo the days where you can say to the boss right you got 5 or 6 years to do it are gone because of the doe involved now !everyone wheels out the "fergies had this long" stuff fairplay but im not so sure he would of survived nearly getting relegated now? everyone was on a much more even footing then.unfortunately now it is a case of be quick or be dead,maybe in 2 yrs jol would say "ok right screw this im not gonna try n sit back n hold leads it aint working for us" etc and you would say there i was right, but we aint got that long .there is no room for sentiment anymore, if jol had that much honour he would of walked out but is he staying because he can't leave spurs or has he stayed coz hes hangin on for his 4m compensation or whatever it is? He needs to climb out of his own jacksy and actually show that he's learning as a manager then everyone's happy! trouble is he seems to me to be a stubborn bull shitter , were see
bty

Anonymous said...

I was never one to judge you before, but after your recent sources about Ledley I find it hard to care about anything you say. You may have your following, but it's generally build on rumour and speculation.

Does that generate hits? Sure, but it's become incredibly stagnant to read you are proved wrong most times.

Harry Hotspur said...

2.11 anon.

'I was never one to judge you before...' But since I put up that 'stop here and judge me sign, you thought you'd help me out, yeah?

You're obsessed by hits sonny. My obsession's Tottenham.

Quick word sunshine...

HH never set out to be the biggest just the most enjoyable.

Stagnant? I'm wounded.
Compared to what? A night out with Keith Richards?

As for the King story, talk to me with the same sweeping know it all
bored of living style when he's back and STAYS back.

How very dare you presume my source inaccurate on the strength of the club's
official site?

The same people who told you that no one had been approached for BMJ's job?

You big oaf.

And I'm 'proved wrong most times?'-

When?

When I tried to field 12 ha ha ha.. players, ahem, or when I told you Bale, Kaboul & Bent were all done in some instances WEEKS before anyone else?

HH

daytripper said...

I agree with 8.18. Of course, were going to hear the same stories from all of the media outlets. What I like so much about Harry's site, is that he always has different takes/angles on the common stories, and can be counted on for a good laugh, which is much needed right now to cure the depression from watching our beloved team crash & burn.... again.

If you don't have a brain and can't handle more than the same old canned one liners that the mainstream media has been regurgitating for ages, then you are definitely at the wrong place.

Anonymous said...

Here's a simple solution if you don't like the site:
DON'T CLICK ON IT! Or if that's too difficult imagine it is Tribal Football's site - that should stop you looking.
The Jol debate will rumble on until he jumps ship or is pushed, but in the meantime, how about we just ignore him and try and lift the players - whoever he picks.

4 Ever Hopeful said...

I think BMJ has made himself look a complete arse with some of these stupid quotations.

It also amazes me that players of this calibre have to practice the basics of defending. These are people who probably from age 9 have learnt how to mark a player and get between him and the ball and all that stuff. It should be second nature by now.

The reason it isn't is because of a basic lack of fight and will to win that has been there for the past two seasons and can only be cured by a chnage of manager and his cronies especially Chris "Pictionary" Hughton.

There can be no other reason. We all say what a great defender Chimbonda is and how good he is in the air but even he was caught out for the Fulham opener. 2-0 at half time and that game was over. I would love to see the stats on how many goals we have conceded under Jol in the 90th minute and often against crap teams (Grimsby, Sunderland (twice), Leicester, etc etc. The list is endless.

Jol was in the right place at the right (or wrong) time. That is how he ended up as manager. He got the job by default because he was the only option at that time.

Anonymous said...

HARRY - for future reference, that light blue is a pain in the gonads to read against the beige background colour.

Do my eyes a favour!

Seany said...

Great site Harry!
I still have faith in Martin Jol!

Anonymous said...

I think we have a problem defending corners cos in training Jol will most probably go for defence vs attack, the only players we have capable in our team of winning headers is our defence.
So against our attackers in training we will never concede a goal, Jol thinks job done until we come up against a real team with people who can move and attack the ball.

Anonymous said...

Chris Pictionary Hughton.

Quality.

Anonymous said...

Jol knows he is on the way out and this was his way of telling Levy that he wont go without the maximum payout.

Go on Levy, pay him off or better still do a swap with this guy - Jol can then go back to Holland.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_van_Gaal

jolsgonemental said...

el,

who will replace jol? how would i know?

I am refering to the fact that his job will hardly be any more tenable 3 games after his ultimatum, given he has provided Levy with a mighty one point as a repost.

He has really come out fighting hasnt he, i mean WOW, Look at the fat boy go. He certainly means business.

A loss and a draw. fuck me. He certainly thrives in adversity.

jolsgonemental said...

he's got the eye of the tiger.

Anonymous said...

Jol fans are like battered wives! constantly making excuses and thinking tommorrow will be differant.Not gonna happen as much as you'd like it to,wake up coys

Anonymous said...

jolsgonmental

try supporting your team rather than talkin like a cunt

just a thought.....

Anonymous said...

if jol is shitting it every corner aint no wonder the team do! sick of this joker!

Anonymous said...

usual jol fan,no argument but a swear word !

Anonymous said...

re: 11:37

its not a case of no argument i actually agree with sum points but not all is football related (fat boy etc)
the fact is, the man is our manager, nobody can deny he`s done a good job and while he is leading our team lets support him!!

daytripper said...

4ever - Good points, I'm going to further your argument. I am really wondering WTF Jol is smoking. There is nothing that can be done in training to improve our defense of corners. Its not that defenders aren't marking all of the players, or we are not physical enough and get easily pushed away, or we have some stupid zonal system that leaves huge gaps. I don't think Jol has a clue what the problem really is.

All of the goals against us on corners the last 2 seasons have been for 2 reasons:

- Robbo does not command his six yard box, and too often allows crosses to go across the face of goal and land in his box, which is almost impossible for a player to defend.

- Dawson and Gardner tend to lose their concentration and constantly let their marks get away on corners - and so do Lee, Chimbonda and King to a lesser degree.

You would think that by the time a player becomes a starting defender in the best league in the world that a coach would not need to teach them how to stay with their f'n mark.

Anonymous said...

archibaldsteve says:
Yes we can deny he has done a good job. He has got us to 5th in the last 2 seasons. At Spurs we are so used to a quarter of a century of under achievement that we think 5th is an achievement. Last season we landed up on ITV for the odd UEFA Cup game (which we incidentally lost to the 1st decent team we encountered as in the other cups). This was an unfamiliar pleasure to a generation of Spurs fans as its been so long. Newcastle and the like have been doing it for years flirting with 6th or 5th or whatever you need to get into the European version of the Carling Cup. Does anyone think of Newcastle as a club that have achieved anything in recent seasons?
The answer is no.
Jol hasn't changed from where he started in t6hat the players still always lose to the top 4 barring the WHL win against Chelsea. I'm so tired of Jol mumbling how he "felt" we did well when we lost! The only action we see from him is standing
on the sidelines in his stall trader tracksuit and baseball cap, arms folded and waving to the gleefull Jollites who get excited by aknowledgement from him.
Can you imagine playing in a season where we actually believe we will go on and win the league title?
Now try and see Jol and Hughton in that picture!

EL said...

Re:JGM

I wasn't asking you to 'know' I was asking you to guess. I was interested in who you'd come up with that's all, but you gibbed out. Just a bit of fun Mental. What with your whiplash wit I was hoping for a creative example of who might do better at the helm.

Eye of the Tiger? Come out fighting? You appear to be confusing the rather cheesely written unreal world of Hollywood with the tough, real and far less accomodating world of premiership management in which, during two years in charge, your namesake has proved himself to be the 5th best in this country. I'm wondering whether chucking him out due to some admittedly bad mistakes is the right response without being as confident as possible that his replacement proves to be the 3rd or 4th best in this country.

Has Jol's successes lead ironically to our expectations running a little ahead of what we should be reasonably demanding?

Are we pushing ruthlessly on? Or are we spoilt impatient brats?

Time will tell either way.

Harry Hotspur said...

Virtually every supporter I speak to wants Hughton gone.

They are uncertain as to his exact role beyond head ball boy and are grossly irritated by the (now to be known as) Pictionary jotter.

Is this just wanting a head or are they on to something?

Harry Hotspur said...

el - Very easy to argue for spoilt impatient brats...

Anonymous said...

GRAZZA: Other prime irritant pertaining to Mr Hughton; He is the one constant in years of dross!! Any mileage in a petition under the guise of a Rep of Ireland Fan club lobbying for him to be made their full time coach?!!?

PS the more violently minded amongst us maybe intersted to know that Mr Hughton can be found purchasing his groceries and (possibly) stocking up on Note Books in the Brookfield Farm Tescos.

Summerspur said...

My training ground spy tells me that jenas has indeed been testing our defence to the utter most limits with a vicous array of looping, pacey, inswinging and outswinging beckham-esque beauties, one of which did not land in chigwell high street was dealt with by dawson, gardner and kaboul just as lennon, tiny tim and steed were looking threatening.

Harry Hotspur said...

Grazza- are you able to confirm if
CH uses the
Pictionary jotter on such trips?

Anonymous said...

wenger obviously is glad jol is staying and we are looking shite, could of made him have doubts if we even looked like we were gonna put the pressure on, but he knows he's got jol in his back pocket!

Anonymous said...

Harold, I personally think you have the most humerous spurs site on web and I like the cut of your j.i.b.

Don't post much but just want to say that:

1) Martin Jol aint the best manager in the world just yet but then neither are Spurs the most attractive club in the world right now. Sack him and you never know who we could get..... even put the development of Taarabt, Dervette, Peckhart etc on hold. I think he is well worth persisting with him for minimum end of the season.

2) Does anyone else think that all three purchases of Bent (injury free that is), Kaboul and Bale (loving what I have seen) are mouth-wateringly good ones for now and the future.

3) Keep it up Harry, loving your work.

4) JolsGoneMental. You're funny. But you're still a nobber.

Bueller

Anonymous said...

GRAZZA:

Summerspur, thats top stuff mate!!! lol

Harold: I cannot confirm this but the fact that he makes use of the trolleys equiped with the mini clip board would suggest that he does. I'll be sure to stalk him round the store next time i see him.

Anonymous said...

"The great fallacy is that the game is first and last about winning. It's nothing of the kind. The game is about glory. It's about doing things in style, with a flourish, about going out and beating the other lot, not waiting for them to die of boredom." Danny Blanchflower (or waiting for the other team to score)he must be turning in his grave!

EL said...

"The more violently minded among us may be interested to know......... Brookfield Farm Tesco....... I'll be sure to stalk him around the store next time I see him".

Grazza, have you read the Terrorism Act recently?


Harry, I tend to lean heavily towards mass bandwagon jumping with regards to anti-Hughton comments. On the one hand I keep reading postings which ask the (pertinent) question; What does he do? And then the claim that he should be gotten rid of. I don't know what he does either. I can't therefore argue for his dismissal without presenting as a bigot. In fact, the only argument I can think of one way or the other is that several managers have had opportunities to get rid of him over the years, and none of them have taken that option. He's obviously impressing someone and it's not as if Levy and the boys are shy of manpower surgery.

Of the back room training staff, my eye's on Allen personally, but as with rather too much at Tottenham, that's one for the future.

dannyboy said...

Grazza - your posts have got better; your 1st one was obviously a one off, so ignore the 'you are a cock' jibe !!!

Harry / Summerspur - I too have seen the pictionary at Brookfield Centre; it's a bit worrying though, because I saw him there about 10 years ago, so I hope he's not a creature of habit ie - he can change things on the training pitch better than his grocery shopping.

Bueller - the signings of Bale, Kaboul and Bent are mouth watering. Personally, I think the prospect of having a fully fit squad with them and the likes of King(?), Lennon, Dawson etc will be tremendous. Let's just hope Jol has the balls to be attack minded and let them loose at the same time!

coys

jolsgonemental said...

11.33am

its funny, thats exactly how Dannyboy spells gone. or gon. depending on which school you went to.

jolsgonemental said...

anti-hughton good, anti-jol bad.

I like the logic people. Blame the one who hands out the oranges at half time.

I am sure Hughton is the real mastermind.

Jol is clearly just a front.

- insert libertines lyric here -

Anonymous said...

Funny how things seem to assume an energy of their own. When initial stories broke about Jol possibly being replaced there were recurring themes in the responses of Spurs fans:
a) dismay at the treatment of the coach and at the behaviour of the board;
b) anxiety over the loss of club stability and the introduction of rapid, knee-jerk change;
c) culpability - did it lie with the coach, the team, the directors or everyone?
d) the way forward.

While many fans had misgivings about Jol's (current) abilities as a top-flight coach, many others expressed confidence. There were notes of realism, too - a recognition that ambition by itself doesn't make a great football team; and that, all in all, Spurs finished the last two seasons in 5th place because we didn't deserve higher. Surely it takes years to create a culture at a club, from grass-roots to board and back to grass-roots again?

One of the best outcomes of Ramosgate is that decency prevailed(at least for a while). Fans (and commentators generally) felt that principles of behaviour - loyalty, honesty, integrity - were more important than financial profit. Now that the dust has settled somewhat, discussions about Jol's coaching skills are less emotional, more rational. Can he really take us into the top four? Doesn't he repeat mistakes? Are his tactics sound? Gradually, the runaway train of his support has slowed. A feeling of inevitability is creeping in. Although the circumstances stink, the board may ultimately be correct. Is Jol's support based on sentimentality? Maybe, maybe not.

But what I want to ask the people here is this: what makes a good coach? What are the qualities needed in the modern manager? Arsene Wenger has just signed a new contract, and who wouldn't wish his talents on a Spurs coach? But just what are those talents and how can they be quantified? Are there philosophies and approaches of coaching, just as there are philosophies and approaches of living? Is the secret to winning football matches based on players' athletic prowess, mental strength, intelligence and quickness of thought or a combination of things? How far is a coach capable of nurturing and developing these qualities? If the coach is the conductor, how does he get the best out of his orchestra?

In short, what makes a good coach and where is the magical alchemy found that makes a winning football team?

dannyboy said...

jolsgonmental

I never went to skool. I'm actually writing this in Borstal as we speak.

coythfc

Harry Hotspur said...

9.37 Anon.

I was remarking only this very afternoon to a friend how blessed this little blog has been with the depth of added quality from the regular posters. You'll fit in nicely.

Welcome.

Do call again.

Anonymous said...

Cool blog

Anonymous said...

No matter what you are all saying, Jol will be sacked if we do not get a positive result against Arsenal.

The table never lies, if we lose to the Arse at home (6 games, 1 draw, 5 losses)Jol will be sacked!!!

EL said...

Re:9.37pm

The answer to your question I suspect, is that success is all about chemistry, and there are so many variables to what goes on at a football club that after doing the obvious ie; getting the best people you can afford according to their CV, it's ultimately a case of hit and hope.

William Goldman the well known screenwriter once said "No-one in Hollywood knows anything". He was refering to his belief that although lots of studio executives, producers and the like tend to go around acting like they understand what makes a blockbuster. Every film, however well market researched and audience tested, is on it's own once released and nobody really understands or knows how well any given film will do despite all the preparation. In other words; there is no formula. There may well be a formulaic way of making a film, or organizing a football club for that matter, but it's no guarantee of anything.

Does anyone out there really think that arse*** knew for sure that getting that useful bloke from that Japanese club would secure their long term future? Or that manUSA would hit the stratosphere once they'd grabbed that no-nonsense growler from aberdeen and left him be even after two years of dross?

Most explanations I've ever heard regarding a clubs success has come after the event. We can all do that.

I tend to believe that Tottenham Hotspur FC are doing pretty much all they can. How it all falls together over the next few years is as much about luck as anything.

Good question though.

Anonymous said...

anon7.27pm

So who will replace him? I think you're wrong.

Anonymous said...

Jurgen Klinsmann!!!!

Anonymous said...

Oh, that's alright then. Did pretty well as national coach for a while, then went to the club he played for as a hero figure. Hmmmm... rings a bell that does........ Wonder if he'll last longer or do any better than our last prodigal son?

Anonymous said...

re 9.37anon



the only magical alchemy i know is that paper stuff you find in the wallets of foreign billionairs.

Anonymous said...

Thanks, Harry.

The internet is awash with rumour, conceit and stubborn opinion, but your site is an island of reason and common-sense.

Jol's attitude to team selection is puzzling. There are young, prodigal talents at the club, e.g. Taarabt and Boateng. Granted, Taarabt is being introduced (albeit slowly) to first team football. The future looks good, but what about the present? Does anyone seriously doubt that, had Fabregas been at Spurs, he would still be playing in the reserves or sitting on the bench, and a much lesser player in consequence?

Bale has started tremendously, but his inclusion in first-team football was a given, at his price. Will his success prove an impetus for other introductions from the squad? Even if it does, will regular Premiership football by itself develop and extend young players? Or does that come in conjunction with coaching trade secrets that Jol isn't privy to?

Freddie Kanoute took a swipe recently when he complained that coaching sessions at the club were boring. Maybe that's all his comment was - a swipe. But, if accurate, can there be anything more destructive to a footballer's form - apart from a broken leg or shopping malls - than boredom?

What I want to hear - not only from Jol but others, too, including McClaren - is genuine pre- and post-match analysis. What we get is PR. Glib phrases referring to quality, passion, bad luck, lapses in concentration etc etc are offered, but very little in the way of real insight. Is this due to pressure of TV time? Is it about putting a gloss and a brave face on? Or is is due to an absence of insight and an inability to identify team and individual flaws?

Maybe just dealing with the media is a hrad enough task for most coaches.

But fans are far brighter than clubs give them credit for. There are no hiding places in the football park arena, and shortcomings are brutally exposed. This player is faster than that. This man surrenders possession. This one is lazy; this one never gives up. This player can't make a forward pass.

As an explanation, glibness doesn't cut the mustard. Genuine analysis, evidence of lessons learned and progress does.

9.37 Anon

Anonymous said...

You have to believe that it all goes on behind the scenes, not in front of a tv camera. Most managers use cliches to avoid revealing too much about their thoughts as a form of protection I imagine. Especially when things are going badly. The more you say, the more ammunition you're handing out.

Same in politics; speak a lot, say nothing.

anon 8.51

Anonymous said...

El

Good points, thanks.

The Hollywood / Spurs comparison reminds me of an old Porky Pig cartoon, with Porky as head of a studio called 'Wonder Films', its slogan being 'If it's a good film it's a Wonder.'

Spurs are like Wonder Films.

But you're right about the chemistry. There are no guarantees, but the probability of success is increased by identifying winning qualities.

It's obvious that fitness, speed, deftness of touch, stamina, strength are all preferable to glass knees and a tendency to run out of puff. Luck and circumstance will still affect the outcome of every game, but the task is to minimise and provide compensation for this influence. Some coaches seem to have a better talent for herding together the canon of winning qualities and deploying them to better practice. Variables and random events will still be inevitable, but (perhaps) fewer.

Appoint Porky Pig, maybe...

9.37 Anon

dannyboy said...

Simply, I reckon if we lose against scum, Jol is gone. Pains me to say it, but thats what I reckon.

You never know, if we had had 6 different fixtures at the start of the season, we may have been 2nd now and the best thing etc, you know what I mean? Another variable.

COYS - please.

Harry Hotspur said...

So,Martin Jol is naïve and Hughton is the living embodiment of the Peter Principle.

As per the Wonder Films motto, the element of chance/ the variables that beseige a football manager cannot be overlooked.

The deflected goal at
Fulham that lofted over
Robinson was bad luck. Yes, he was off his line, but as Eccles used to say in the old
Goon Shows when asked 'What are you doing there?'...

'Everybody gotta be somewhere..'
How many chances did Spurs fail to convert?
Is Jol to blame that Steed hit the post?

Of course not.

Jol's job is to ensure that a man in a Spurs shirt is put in a position where opportunity may knock. The end product is down to the toe of the striker, the hand of the goalie and the wind speed variables of the afternoon.

When he makes'
those' daft substitutions THEN we can see the danger we're in with him as our Napoleon.

I was amazed that the board gunned for Jol so soon. But at least the intention to sell up is revealed and we can pretty much know where we bound if only in stockmarket terms.

Reasoned analysis on a blog by us lot is one matter, but the bloodlust of the Colussium is another.

Jol has the crowd for now, but anything less than a draw against Arsenal and the thumbs will begin to turn.

Summerspur said...

HARRY

Some high quality posts in the last half dozen or so. Your last one was spot on and probably reflects the views of many of us.

what with it being sunday and all the good sport was yesterday, i demand something lighter today.
Maybe a defoe swap deal for heskey, or a bring back uncle bulgaria canpaign, previous attempts have failed to gather support.
At the very least could you not wind up jolsbeenmentalforawhilenow?

If you fail to act on this simple request i for one shall be launching a campaign to have you replaced with a non english speeking leader with his very own etch-a-sketch, worthy of the legions that follow.

Vinny said...

I'm a great believer of "you make your own luck".

Bad luck happens to everyone of us in some shape or form in our lives, but with a combination of hardwork and a good dose of competency/know how should balance that bad luck out and produce a few sweet fruits now n again too, or as they say, you harvest what you sow.

There seems to have been a tad too much of bad luck lately and the chemistry that El was talking about just doesn't seem right.

Unfortunately for Jol, he will be the scientist held responsible for messing up the magic chemical formula as the board will argue they have provided him with more explosives and firework ammunition than even Guy Faulkes could ever dream of.

I must admit, after the Fulham game I am very torn between the emotional side of my heart wanting Jol as great bloke and genuine lover of Tottenham and of whom has helped make the premiership sit up and take notice of us once more to succeed starting by beating the Scum on Saturday.

At the same time the logic ruled by my head finds it hard not to get excited by the prospect of proven champions like Lippi, Capello or Ramos, taking on our immensely talented young guns onto the next level as commonsense tells us these could be the right men for the job having created the magic formula or chemistry needed to succeed, whatever you want to call it many times elsewhere, in other words are proven managers.

It is a tough dilemna that Im sure many Spurs supporters can feel the same emotions right now.

However for now my heart is still winning with wanting MJ badly to succeed and prove everyone of us who doubt him wrong, similar to that footballing fairytale that the Jock in Manc land recently created...however those kind fairytales rarely happen.

MJ, it is now or never i'm afraid mate, the best of luck...go on you Spurs, go beat the scum!!!

EL said...

I reckon if we play really well but still lose to a slightly better goon show, Jol will still be ok for a bit. Mainly because I don't believe we currently have someone lined up to step in pronto and I can't see the board letting Hughton or Allen act as caretaker. The final straw may well be on it's way but losing to a top 4 club would be a harsh one. Losing one more then going on a steady run of say 6 to 10 games would turn things around fairly quickly. Nobody has that many points yet. Having said that, beating the goons would be the perfect start to a run and is doable.

Go on the Spurs!

Anonymous said...

vinny...
cracking post, i think you`ve just summed up the general feeling there mate!!
time to step up to the plate & prove a few people wrong!!

coys!!!!!

Anonymous said...

do we really want an italian strategist as the manager of the glorious tottenham hotspur?

Anonymous said...

GRAZZA:

Dannyboy - Cock Jibe suitably ignored (i've been called worse you wont be surprised to hear ;))- I was in a bad mood when i made that post. I've been floating about a while posting anonymously, but as Harry isnt a great lover of the anon i thought id give my self a moniker.

Whats even more worrying than CH possibly not having the flexibility to be a succesful coach is the fact that we obviously dont pay him enough to shop in Marks & Sparks next door!!!

El - I choose not to read the Terrorism act in the vain hope that ignorance can be my mitigation should it ever be necessary ;)

Anonymous said...

If the rumour is right and Klinsmann is taking over Tottenham and cleaning all of the stables, board, management, etc., chances are I'll be a member of Spurs soon, because I believe there's no remedy to this ongoing curse unless a fresh new start. Levy, commoli, jol, houghton all out, please.

As for Berbatov, things are getting worse and now the mood his affecting the national team. it's no great wonder Holland and Romania will be the ones in the final because Bulgaria is a poor side. but Berba's problems are affecting his behaviour and his sorroundings and he's likely to destroy in a few months what took so many years to build. just check this opinon by a retuped bulgarian journalist:

'As the saying goes, "the fish rots from the head", and Berbatov, the captain, was the one who let his team down the most. His frustration with teammates verged on petulance at times, yet he himself failed to set the example, as a captain should.'

Rings a bell, anyone?

I said it before: put yourself together , man. Be a man and act like one. Only death has no cure for it.

Harry Hotspur said...

'This isn't just a bad tactical decision.... this is an oak smoked, hand sliced oraganic bad tactical decisi........'

Vinny said...

Anon 12.26am - Cheers mate, I speak from my Cockerel shaped heart like you and millions of others...:0)

Anon 4.43am - "do we really want an italian strategist as the manager of the glorious tottenham hotspur?"

...Eeeeeeeeerm...don't see your point mate, why wouldn't we want guys, one of which won a world cup and between them have won European honours for fun? as well as constantly finishing in champions league placings in their respective leagues?. Does this not suggest that they may have the experience to handle the top players that we are currently blessed with, as well as have the know how tactically to win key games, whatever the opponent on a consistent basis?

Eeeeerm how about Messrs Benitez - Successful in Spain then wins the champions league and consistently champions league placings with the Scouse, Mourhino a champs league winner with humble Porto, be it all with many millions but has proved nevertheless to have the character, pshychology and tactics to out think chavski opponents as we found to our detriment last season as well as the manager of the scum up the road who was successful in France as well as respected worldwide before taking the scum to a new level from the boring George Graham days...purely a coincidence???...I think not.

If the speculation on the big man being on his way out is correct, then maybe we should bring in someone who is a Tottenham man through and through but with experience of the Blue Square premier...perhaps Colin Calderwood? or Steve Perryman? (no disrespect to a true Tottenham legend though) get my drift?...

However this is all theoretical, I like most others am 100% behind MJ while he is our head man. I will be very dissapointed if the big man fails, but you have to admit any of the 3 candidates mentioned (Ramos, Lippi, Capello) or even Jurgen Klinsmann (although unlikely), for me would soften the blow a little.

Anonymous said...

vinny,

to answer your question:

"The great fallacy is that the game is first and last about winning. It's nothing of the kind. The game is about glory. It's about doing things in style, with a flourish, about going out and beating the other lot, not waiting for them to die of boredom."

the old lady is, and has always been, boring to watch.

i rather prefer ramos, but i am, of course still behind BMJ.

anon 4.43

Vinny said...

Anon 4.43 - by "The old lady" I'm assuming you're referring to Juventus and not your missus, as indeed my old lady is not that great on the dribble, infact she is more of a hatchet women...:0)

Any way back to the "old lady", granted the Serie A style of football fails to live up to the entertaiment of our beloved premiership these days, but the men previously mentioned were respectively at the helm of teams such as AC Milan and Juventus (pre-calciopoli)when these 2 teams were packed with world stars who were in their prime, and won many a champions league trophy.

So don't judge the Juventus of today as it is not the same as when Lippi and Capello were at the helm, at that time Juventus was a completely different prospect who when not in the final of the champions league you could bet your house on them being at least in the Semi-finals year upon year. Now that kind of success is something us Spurs fans have been dreaming about for many years.

I know we have become used to not winning much in the last 20 years or so but who says we dont deserve to win things and consistently be amongst the best, cos I don't know about you, style and panache is all very good, but if you end up losing due to silly naive tactical mistakes then there is something not right in the managers tactics and why should we not become that footballing giant again having our own years of greatness and domination just like in the Nicolson era?...isn't it about time?

However if Ramos were to be installed as coach ahead of these 2 Italians, then I would be equally as delighted as like you I rate him as a great upcoming manager.

Again it all depends on who would be available if or at the time of our beloved MJ not being around anymore, christ I hope it doesn't happen at all and MJ goes on to be the legend, but if he's not up to it our interests are in the success of Tottenham foremost before any favourite manager, cos it's Tottenham we love first.

And again I commend you for wanting to win in style like the true Spurs way, don't we all, but I don't know how many fellow Spurs supporters would turn down the chance of winning champions leagues etc in favour of stylish losses, cos believe me to win those sort of competitons the team needs to have style in the first place but the difference is at the same time knowing how to convert this into being winners, which is usually a mentality instilled by the manager...united we stand anon 4.43 and all fellow Spurs supporters...COYS!!!