Monday, March 31, 2008

Tottenham's New Captain Announces Himself


The answer's Woodgate. 


I'll be honest, Robbie Keane is a star, but I've kindda reached a point in my support of this club whereby I'm looking for a little bit more than pointy shouty finger wagging at linesmen.  The self indulgent anorak hurling of the other week didn't appall me, it bored me. I think I said at the time all it served to do was give the other lot a giggle at our expense. 

I'm looking for a captain who's prepared to Captain before, during and after disaster. 

So as M*A*S*H's Radar used to say... Now hear this... 

"We massively contributed to our own downfall," 

"We didn't defend well at all, not just the back four but the team in general. You rely a lot on your midfielders as well if they play three up front with one in the hole. You defend as a team and when you are not doing that, you are going to get beaten."

"I don't blame them for leaving early - I wouldn't have stayed and watched that, would you?" 

Step forward and step up Jonathan Woodgate. 

This, my friends is the mindset we are after. A man in line with the contained rage of Gus and in line with all of the 'you sold me a ticket AND THEN STOLE FROM ME comments that have swamped not only this blog but countless other Tottenham forums all over the Net since the Toon Fiasco.

Vote Woodgate.




89 comments:

Dan said...

Hey Harry,

Kitbag have officialy run out of Spurs 125 year anniversary shirts. On the delivery note it actually said "BLAME HARRY HOTSPUR!" Therefore, I am. YOU FECKER!!!!!!!!!! ;o) Oh and happily support Woodgate for captain, he has his head screwed on and doesn't seem the panicky type. Just what we need after years of Dads army defending....

COYS!!!

Anonymous said...

i agree, would love to see him as captain.

would anyone else agree that he looked very shaky against his former club?

Harry Hotspur said...

A delivery note but no goods? Dan you are behaving like a hired stooge. Loving your work either way. Don't Panic!

greavsie said...

Fair shout Harry, but the Gate himself was awful on Sunday and has previous when it comes to the lacklustre (just ask boro fans). It's going to take more than words.

Anonymous said...

We go back to old thought that captains should always be defenders, overseeing the play over the whole pitch. We have Ledley, I'm happy with him as captain then we have Woodgate, I'm just as happy having him as stand in captain. Keane is a brilliant player but as far as leadership goes, I don't see what he brings to the cause. The same could be said for Robinson and Jenas although they need to concerntrate either on their games or settling into their new clubs.

Harry Hotspur said...

Agreed Greavsie, much more than words are required.

I just admire his honesty. Doesn't soften the blow much, but he clearly feels able to say what we all think. And say. Fair play to the big 'looks like he nicks electric from lamposts' type geezer.

Anonymous said...

I'm with 23.59

My first post on here. And a corker. :) :)

Anonymous said...

Keegan's now saying NUFC now 'fear no one'. Fucking hilarious. What a prize cunt.

Anonymous said...

Stating the obvious after a thrashing to which he contributed by continuously passing to the opposition does not make Woodgate a great captain. His leadership skills on sunday were conspicuous by their absence.

Anonymous said...

i see Woodgate as being a very able captain and would totally support him in that position. He is a solid player and i am interested why we had never really been linked with him in the past. He is on his way to becoming a spurs legend.

Anonymous said...

I am glad there was a mass exoudus by our 36,067 fans (I was one of them) on the Martin goal on the 83 minute.

It clearly send a strong message to Ramos and company + the Spurs Board. That we will not stand for a rubbish play, when the Toons are an average team.

In these days, there is no time mess about with the team - because anymore results like that we will be calling for some serious sackings!!!! Remember Jol!

Shame on Ramous for what he did in tinking with the team!!!

Dan said...

Yeah i think he would make a good captain, he is an all round good player and i belive that a captain should be able to read the game. If you look he rarely has to run at full pace because he is in right positions.

I would love to see him come out with the armband on!!!

Also it does take more than words but look at his games since he signed for us especially the Carling Cup Final!!!

Harry Hotspur said...

00.17 You make a fair point, but we gotta start somewhere and maybe trying to promote a player is more positive than calling for everyone involved to be shot. ( I appreciate that you weren't. Not here at least)

onedavemackay said...

Big players come to the party in big games and Woody did that in the final and many times since.

Sure words are just words but how often do you see one of today's players hold his hand up like that ?

He continues to impress of course he'd make a great captain.

23.59 Were you seriously suggesting that Jenas and Robbo a. Have anything in common with Woodgate ( him being a top class footballer and them being anything but) and b. are capable captains( yeh maybe in Dads Army ! ) Or have I misunderstood you?

And Arold. Please sort the clock out I confuse very easily !

Harry Hotspur said...

" If you look he rarely has to run at full pace because he is in right positions."

~ Dan


Great comment.

Harry Hotspur said...

ODM, mate the clock is a disaster. The Blogger settings tell me it's quarter past Mexico....

Anonymous said...

The fact that Woodgate's a newcomer to the squad might offend the pride of some of the longer-serving players.

Come summer, however, there may not be many long-serving players left. And should we really give a tinker's about their pride, anyway? Let them suck up and deal.

Woodgate has leadership qualities, reads the game well, speaks honestly. Also, his personal standards appear high, so he leads by example. He recognises the value of defending from all areas of the pitch. He's a ripe age for captaincy, and at a good time in his career.

Who knows, perhaps an extended period of play and captaincy from Woodgate would have helped restore Robinson's confidence and form. We can only guess.

Unlike some of the players, I don't sense any brown-nosing in any of Woodgate's statements and observations. I just hear a professional speaking.

All of which means yes, I agree he'd make a good captain.

But, despite his eminent qualities, I do have one reservation about his abilities which I think, were he given the armband, would be of fundamental significance:

Can he flip a coin?

9.37 Anon

Anonymous said...

Nice positive thoughts Harry but I think it will take more than just naming a new captain.OK we won the league cup and are more or less safe but first Brum, then Citeh and now the nuffers on the tyne is getting a bit much.We seem to have come full circle since we last plyed them under the previous regime...Ramos has apparently told the players they have until the end of the season to prove themselves & it seems quite a few are doing this in a way that is pointing to the exit door...

Harry Hotspur said...

"But, despite his eminent qualities, I do have one reservation about his abilities which I think, were he given the armband, would be of fundamental significance:

Can he flip a coin?"



Not sure, but according to an ex (that blonde bit off Big Brother) he can shout out "Head!" upon request. Allegedly.

Anonymous said...

I was onloy referencing Robinson and Jenas as these two have seen the armband bestowed upon them in games. I can guarantee that not just myself but no one in their right mind would place either of these two as captains unless his name were Martin and maybe his brother Cock

Anonymous said...

jokes last comment as well

Anonymous said...

Harry do you mean make Woody captain for the remaining games, or make him club captain?
I'm still kinda hoping to see Ledders striding out with the armband on at the start of next season.....

Cwoff said...

Lots of comments and not a single one has mentioned that we already have a captain called Ledley King.

Assuming he does eventually return to being a regular then I see no reason to relieve him of the captaincy (that's not to say Ramos will give it to him next season).

Long term my money's on O'Hara.

Anonymous said...

"Assuming he does eventually return "


Your words....

Anonymous said...

Club Captain and Team Captain are different.

No-one can argue a good case for the King to be Team Captain when he can only play 20% of our games.

Anonymous said...

it has been on the whole a much happier season supporting spurs.
I actually question the tactics for the newcastle game and team selection. It looked like we'd never played together before and up against a team knowing that if they win almost guarantees safety.
The management would have learned a lot about the players ( motivation, tactical sense, pride,ability to do the right thing when things just aren't working out. )
The losers were the spurs fans at that game and the players with no spurs contract next season.
mark

jolsgonemental said...

First kick up the arse should go to Dimitar Berbatov.

BimitarDerbatov said...

idiot.

Anonymous said...

Bring back BMJ! I remember the good old days when we could lose to Newcastle and still finish fifth...

BimitarDerbatov said...

another idiot.

Anonymous said...

To be honest, if you read the whole Woody interview, he slates Berbatov. And rightly so, Bimitar you can call people what you want, doesn't change the fact Berbatov has been piss poor and has spent more time playing with his hair and sitting on the floor that being productive over the last few games. Stop sucking his dick.

Harry Hotspur said...

Easy to have a pop at a man who looks so p*ssed off with others much of the time, but Berba has been playing deeper and deeper as his service got weaker an weaker. Defoe got abused for not dropping back. Bent is getting slated for be unable to 'hold the ball up' amongst othre crimes... The common link here are the clowns incapable of threading decent balls in.

Unless Berba & Co are supposed to be on the end of their own passes...?

Anonymous said...

Hazza, I'm not taking issue with his attacking, because the man can pull a piece of genius out of nothing.
But he's played in the hole and expected to help out the midfield, maybe even come back and defend God forbid! All he did was sit on the floor adjusting his hairband.

Woody said this "We massively contributed to our own downfall, We didn't defend well at all, not just the back four but the team in general. You rely a lot on your midfielders as well if they play three up front with one in the hole. You defend as a team and when you are not doing that, you are going to get beaten"

Says it all really.

BimitarDerbatov said...

20+ goals per season so far..

piss-poor on Sunday?? maybe..

piss-poor all season?? hardly..

i'm sorry but what really gets me is that players like Darren Bent, for example, can play shit week in week out and still have people saying things like "oh let's wait and see, he could be a great player for Spurs"

all the while we have a TRULY GREAT player already playing for Spurs.. a player who brings more to a game than Bent or Jenas or even Keane (dare i say it) will ever bring to a Spurs team.. a player who certainly has more footballing intelligence than the rest of the team..

and yet whenever he has an off day he gets slated just because our expectations of him are higher...

it seems to me that because peoples expectations of certain players are lower, then that excuses a bad performance..

which to me is bulshit.. we should demand the utmost from every player (yes that includes Berb)

so in conclusion, for last Sunday EVERYONE should get a kick up the h*le.. not just Berb..

BimitarDerbatov said...

well said Harry..

Harry Hotspur said...

Bang on Bimi old boy..

Harry Hotspur said...

uh oh, love is in the air! ;)

Anonymous said...

Shouldn't we also be talking about the diamond formation that Ramos played? bringing lennon in on the left?
As well as our boys playing like a bunch of c**ts, I don't think Ramos was tactically on the ball.

Anonymous said...

His work-rate is suspect anyway, so yes, the first kick up the arse is going his way, at least from my boot it would be.

Im not saying he's been crap all season, but the last few weeks he has been noticably less productive.

Keane gets subbed off and we're left with the Incredible Sulk, who wont close down the oppo and walks more than he runs.

I'm not saying he isnt a good player, or his heart isnt in it, but he needs to show more fight.

I like the guy, maybe thats why im being hard on him, cos i want him to do well, but even if your having an off day, a good work ethic can make up for it.

Christopher said...

To 00:19

My first attack on this forum simply because of one word. LEGEND.

For f*cks sake people just throw that word around far to casually nowadays.

How is he well on his way to being a Spurs legend??

Why do some of us feel the need to spout such utter drivel about every newcomer to the lane? Do we want to look like cnuts?

Examples of past would be legends:

Lennon...hmmmm
Bale (possible but COME ON...hes so young and barely played any premiership games)
Dawson - who everyone now slates
Berbatov - who has somehow now divided opinion entirely across WHL
Luke Young - waste of space
Carrick - f*cked off ASAP

I mean they are literally a few recent examples but as fans we just open ourselves up for ridicule by our rivals and even ourselves by saying such things.

Give it a year...in fact give it 3 years...just give it any sort of logical time that proves a player is even a spurs player by then let alone a "legend".

Back to work I go...

BimitarDerbatov said...

Harry i would like to propose a motion for the banning of the use of the word c*nt..

take for example anon 15.13 on this thread:

"playing like a bunch of c*nts"

how exactly one plays like a c*nt i'd love to know..

Anonymous said...

Anon 15:13 here.
Sorry, I should have been clearer.
Someone plays like a c**t when they have a certain bad air about them, one that is not welcome. They flap, they dribble (albeit not where you want them to). They sometimes gas off that they are great but on certain days they have a stinker. I believe quite a few players on Sunday slide into that category or gap that I call a c**t!
I hope I have explained my comments...

jolsgonemental said...

I have seen him bust a gut in the big games (Cup final, Arsenal 5-1) chasing down balls, harrassing the back line. So the 'thats the way he alway is' line doesnt wash.

as the figurehead of our team and our best player Berbs attitude clearly sets the tone for the rest of our players.

My opinion of him isnt divided or unsure - I think he is our best player since Ginola. but maybe he should try and set an example when things arent clicking rather than be the first to throw his hands in the air and sulk?

for fuck sake a missplaced pass in the first 10 mins can set him on a sulk for the rest of the game.

BimitarDerbatov said...

15.13 / 15.31

in fairness to yourself you seem at a lot more articulate than a few other morons on here..

i was more trying to target lads who just use that word for no aparent reason.. the reference to your post was just handy...

it's a horrible word in my opinion and should be reserved for people who really deserve it.. ashley cole springs to mind.. i'm sure you'll agree..

Anonymous said...

C*nt

Anonymous said...

BimitarDerbatov, 15:13 here.
I agree. I will reserve the word for special occasions.

Anonymous said...

Cole (noun) - a four-letter C-word currently under consideration for formal introduction to the English lexicon as a designate of anyone passing obnoxious.

To Cole (verb) - to act petulantly; to behave in a manner akin to a five-year old; to gesticulate wildly and abusively; to slap a lady's bottom with such force as to leave an impression of one's wedding-ring thereon ; to empty the contents of one's stomach during sexual intercourse.

9.37 Anon

Mysterious Stranger said...

Perhaps we should ban the "C" word, and since we have a Spanish manager, use their basic equivalent instead.

"Coño"

It means exactly the same thing, only it isn't considered very offensive at all there. They use it frequently - it's practically an everyday language insult - and regarding it's offensiveness it ranks in English terms comparable to "pussy".

One thing is for sure, I bet Ramos was calling most of the Spurs players "Coños" on Sunday...

bimitar, with the greatest respect, we know you love what Dimitar brings to the pitch, in fact we all do. When he can be bothered, that is. When he isn't stropping and blaming everyone else. If it bothers you there are people defending Darren Bent it's because they recognise he does have some talent, and has not had much of a run out. It seems to me if Berba scores one fantastic goal and does little else he's lauded. If Bent does it he's criticised.

I've said it before, I'll say it again. If Berba truly wants to ply his trade elsewhere and we get offered 30 to 40 million GBP for him it's a no brainer to me.

His team mates may not need praising, but encouragement is better than constant criticism and displays of frustration. Berba - this season at least, has seemed to more often opt for the latter options. Morale booster, anyone?

BimitarDerbatov said...

it's not that people are defending Bent, and there are many other players i could mention instead of him, but as i said earlier..players like Bent and Jenas and Zokora seem to get defended just beacuse we have lower expectations of them..

as for Berba throwing strops.. well it's plain for anyone to see that he's frustrated at the inadequacies surrounding him..

perhaps that's no excuse but i for one am willing to forgive him any strop he wants to throw in exhange for what he brings to a football team.....OUR football team..

Anonymous said...

I suppose that, but for Berba, but for Keane, but for a collective team effort and but for Ramos and Poyet (and but for Commoli, too, for that matter) we all might be preparing ourselves for Championship football by now.

Berba's a splendid player without a doubt. We can only guess about his psychology, but he seems impatient to achieve. Maybe it's something in his background - his father was a footballer and his mother played handball (she'd probably still do a better job in goal than Robbo) - but he appears to want to live up to expectations. Maybe they are his parents' expectations, his own, his greater family's, his country's. Who knows? Whatever the facts, he's ambitious. But that's a pre-requisite quality for a footballer, so it shouldn't surprise us any more than if Zokora or Lennon expressed ambition.

Whatever motivates Berba is fine by me. And whatever or whosever expectations he wants to meet that's also fine. But I do wish more than anything he'd live up to OUR expectations. Perhaps we've allowed ourselves to be seduced by the silky skills and forgotten that he's only human, just like the rest. The bigger the expectation the bigger the disappointment.

In addition, I wonder if in some way Berba has become the Spurs equivalent of Henry, so that we endeavour excessively to shape our play to suit him. The fact that we consistently fail to do so suggests either that we don't or the bulk of the team can't thread a pass. But, if we do, it's a good approach while we still have him, but it's not without consequences: luxury dulls the blade of industry.

I, too, would happily see us bank 30-40 million for him, much as it would pain me to see him go. But I think Ramos is eminently capable of moulding a side more egalitarian in nature and unburdened by egos and personal aspirations.

9.37 Anon

Anonymous said...

Ah yes, passing! That old art. Great point my fellow anon... hard to name one midfielder on this team that is known for his ability to see a pass. Maybe Hudd on his day, but I can feel Berba's pain. Tiago would've helped had he come in January, but this needs to be sorted by DC/JR during the summer or Berb will leave.

simianSpur said...

what about hutton?
he is determined. disciplined. respected and was the only player on sunday to play his usual solid game.

I`m not sure what his leadership qualities are as yet, but he would no doubt still feel like the new kid on the block. come next season he could be a leader of men.

Harry Hotspur said...

"I, too, would happily see us bank 30-40 million for him, much as it would pain me to see him go. But I think Ramos is eminently capable of moulding a side more egalitarian in nature and unburdened by egos and personal aspirations."

9.37 Anon


I can't possibly C&P all the wisdom you generously drop off here as I have a bad back, but I can highlight the odd bit. A side more egalitarian in nature unburdened etc... really on the mark there.

Maybe, after having such an avuncular love vibe with BMJ I am guilty of WANTING Juande to let me fall in love with him. To make it all better. With his dynamic use of subs and effortless plain navy suits.

The diamond didn't worry me. But Lennon on the left did. He is undoubtedly mending and making do until the window. Then I expect Wendy to open the bloody thing and hurl a few more of those who are not destined for HIS 'final furlongs' to their fate.

I suspect he would be 'puerco enfermo' or similar if Berba HAD to go. But I also believe as 9.37 ANON that the situation would be recoverable due to the talent steering this ship, not just it's crew.

Harry Hotspur said...

19.52 Perceptive point. Whilst I am unapologetic in being on record that most Sweaty footballers are rubbish... The good ones, and this chap Hutton looks very good, are frequently well able to lead due to being as hard as ****, determined bar stewards.

Anonymous said...

Hutton for captain is one for the future, maybe. He's still orientating himself in the squad, the league, the country. And probably still searching for a cafe that sells fried Mars Bars, although he has no doubt discovered by now that most supermarkets sell oatcakes.

Plus, Hutton's still learning. He came south to improve his football, we're told. He might be too preoccupied with nipping up and down the wing and finding openings in forward positions to read the overall game. Plus stopping the other team scoring, which I understand to be part of his remit.

But certainly he brings some strength, pace and solidity. And a reason to be cheerful.

Re passing, I thought that was Robinson's job. Isn't it one of his functions, apart from ensuring the ball goes past him, to kick it from his end of the pitch to the other, using a finely-directed lob?

Unless I'm missing the point. But missing the point is an easy habit to get into. Spurs missed three on Sunday.

I'm all for players performing roles - attacking midfield, defensive midfield, creative passing, breaking up, whatever - but every player has times when he must act in isolation. And if (hypothetically) he's trained to break up play when the situation desperately demands he perform some sleight of foot or make a deft pass he's likely to wind up looking a chump.

Come summer I hope we see more players with a fuller alphabet of skills. Remember the Carling Cup Final when Zokora was through on goal? Or Jenas' penalty miss against PSV? To me, regrettably, these examples sum up Spurs more than the slick moves and the great goals. But I'm just a miserable ba*tard.

No doubt there will be departures and arrivals at Spurs at the end of the season. I trust they won't involve passing through Terminal 5 - passing being a questionable art at Spurs, and Terminal 5 being just sh*t. Speculation mounts that up to 5 players have reached terminal points in their Spurs careers. Maybe more.

Berba represents class on the pitch but money in the bank - a real cash cow. If he decides he wants to go and we get a big, fat cheque for him we can spend, spend, spend. B*gger me, we might even be able to afford that Stewart Downing fellow, who we apparently 'missed out on' during the transfer window, and whose aquisition would help to solve our 'left-sided problem'. (Just kidding.)

9.37 Anon

johnnyboy said...

Long time lurker blah blah quality show lads keep up the banter and the good work...

Anonymous said...

I think that there has been some really intelligent debate on this thread. To add my two pence:

C U Next Tuesday

Personally I do not think that this kind of lexicon should be used to refer to our players no matter how badly they play. We should be loyal and stand by them (as we always do). I can can however suggest the following substitutes -

1) Arsenal players
2) Arsenal manager
3) Ashley Cole
4) John Terry
5) Robbie Savage
6) Incompetent referees

However the following may have been recent cause to provoke such an outburst of Anglo Saxon -

1) Zokora missing an open goal in the Carling Cup final
2) Jenas penalty miss
3) Chimbonda penalty miss

Berba

Yes he is a tremendous player. Yes one of the best in Europe. Yes probably our most gifted since Ginola. Yes good goal return. But a legend? Only history will decide that. If I was Juande I would do the old 'Carrick two step' and get as much money for him as I possibly could come the window. The difference being that this time having sold the said player for a kings ransom I would make sure that I properly and adequately replaced them. Back off Comolli!!!!

Today's rant over...

Anonymous said...

Cheers, HH. I get far more than I give.

9.37 Anon

BorisTM said...

Teams with a captain who is a center midfielder have, are and will always dominate. Central midfielders are the heart and soul of a team, and they are in the middle of all the action.
I like Woody's attitude but we need someone like Nicky Butt (MVP for SPURS-Newcastle game) who can get the team going when things are looking shit.

COYS

BimitarDerbatov (A.37 9non) said...

MVP!? how are things stateside!?

just a few thoughts..

firstly 9.37 Anon.. i enjoy your posts so much i'm considering changing my name to "A.37 9non"...

ok it doesn't have the same ring to it but in my eyes you truly are the Berba of this blog.. keep up the good work.. Harry you're more of a Robbie Keane.. you compliment each other well!!

which leads me nicely back to Berba..

i understand the viewpoint that a lot of money will be coming our way should we choose to sell him..

BUT he is a world class player..the first we've had in along time..

now to my mind, the reason we would want money is so that we could buy world class players. i'll say it again: Berba is a world class player

so WHY would we get rid of a world class player in order to bring in a world class player??

now i already know what peoples response to that question will be: we need to buy some quality midfielders..

that's fair enough.. the only problem being that we're now down a world class striker and anyone who thinks Darren Bent will replace Berb is really kidding themselves..

i can't imagine Berba not playing in a white shirt.. i know i'm probably a fool for thinking that but that's just how i feel..

is he a Lane Legend?? he already is in my eyes but one more season and one more trophy at the Lane and surely the answer would be a resounding YES..

dannyboy said...

If we can get 30-40 mil for Berbatov, let's take it. The bloke is a moaner and sends out the wrong attitude to the rest of the team. 10 good games a season is not what legends are made of. How he can be called a legend is beyond me; is he as good as say Hoddle or Greaves? Erm, no. They were proper legends. Offload. Now.

coys

Anonymous said...

For 30+ Million we'd be crazy not to sell. Bimitar your opinion on the matter isn't really valid as you are not looking at the player subjectively, your pseudonym here is an altered version of the said players name which clouds your judgement and tints your glasses to a familiar rose.

Not to say your opinion isn't welcome or in fact needed, but it wont ever be looked at as unbiased when the discussion moves to Mr Berbatov.

Lets hope he can show us in the last 6 games the kind of things we love to see from him, not the things that make us cringe.

Anonymous said...

bim -

You're too kind. I see myself more as one of the reserves.

I'd love Berba to stay but, apart from the money to be gained by selling him, there's an issue of timing.

In football, as in all things, timing is everything. Of course, you wouldn't know that if you asked Robinson, but it's true. I suspect that Berba's ambitions and the development of the Spurs team as a whole (as a mechanism of mutual support to complement each other) are not coincident. They're moving at different rates and in different directions. Spurs are consistently playing catch-up, trying to achieve his level - and he consistently lets the team know they're failing.

I sense that he wants to pull free of the club's gravity, but it keeps pulling him back. Maybe he enjoys life so much at the club he'll stay. Or maybe the Ramos factor will tempt him to stick around. He may have been made privy to some of the changes planned in the summer, and perhaps want to try his luck in the brave new Spurs world of next season.

Personally, I'm privy to nothing, so it's all guesswork. Whatever the facts, 30 million is a huge wedge of cash, and could offset some of the losses we might have to swallow on players whose stock has fallen (Robinson, Lennon), while still providing a considerable profit for reinvestment in better playing staff.

Let time unfold and let us see. The transfer window threw up a few surprises. Rumours, and not a little common sense, tell us that January was but a small-scale rehearsal for summer shocks.

COYS

9.37 Anon

EL said...

I'm with Boristm on the captain question; I'd always have a midfield dynamo in said position, but Woody would certainly do for now when Leds is crocked.

As someone said earlier, of all our current players, my money would be on O'hara, even though the jury's still out on him coming right up to scratch. In fact, if I had to bet on whether he will come up a level or two, I'd bet against. I can't help feeling that like so many of our players, he works hard and on his day, puts in a match winning performance but ultimately lacks that special something which separates 'great' players from good ones. As usual, I do hope he proves me wrong but then I've expressed similar hopes about Jenas, Lennon, Thud, Dawson, and Taarabt, all of whom I suspect will be warming someone elses bench fairly soon.

Funny how we're all pretty much agreed that half this team isn't good enough, and yet it's these very players jol persuaded to finish 5th, twice running.

Am I the only Spurs supporter who feels that Wendy & Gus are pointing the finger just a teensy bit too hard? Isn't it the manager's job, to put the players in the right frame of mind prior to kick off? When the manure squad approach 99% of games with the same hard edged attitude, we marvel at the ability of fergy to get them 'up' for every game, yet, when ours fall flat, we only judge the players. Surely Wend & Gus carry some responsibility. Otherwise it looks like we have an entire team of players who have a fair degree of talent, but none who have the required biting ambition. Perhaps that's been our position for some time; we can only attract and afford the 'nearly' men.

I too am begining to struggle to view Berbs' stroppyness with the kindly eye of needy fan. He's begining to get on my tits, so god knows what a thoroughbred professional like Ramos is thinking. Would not surprise me to see ol' 'hands on his hips' swanning his way through some other club's daisys some time soon. I dare say 25 mil or so could buy you 20 odd goals a season and some.

And what the fcuk happened to Jenas? Totally disappeared? Where is he?

Dannyboy?

Anonymous said...

How about Berba as captain?

There's probably a reason why we don't talk about him as a potential for the armband. Ok, his arms may be too thin. Or he may simply not want it. But it doesn't seriously cross our minds that a player who constantly requires 'lifting' can, instead, regularly perform that function on others.

Manybe it would be the making of the man. At last he'd get to see the world through others' eyes. Instead of apportioning blame he'd have to exercise reason and encouragement.

I'm being hard on him, I know. He doesn't deserve it. He's not unknown to do these things already. But the brutal reality is that, when you're earning in a week the kind of money that most of us dream of earning in a year, you have to expect a few harsh words from time to time. If you demand and command high wages then the least you can do is give your utmost for them. If you don't you only serve to feed the fires of resentment. Fans have a right to be impatient with their prima donnas. When they get onstage we expect them not only to sing in tune but to trill like a canary.

The 'nearly men' observation is correct. I, too, would bet against O'Hara. Thye cynic in me says that this may be his moment in the sun. I hope I'm wrong and that the remainder of his career won't be in the shadows.

I believe Ramos alluded to this 'nearly' concept when he took up his post, remarking on the club's history and traditions and how it was failing to honour them in the present. I sense he viewed us at the time as the 'nearly club', but clearly felt confident that he can hoist us up the table onto the banquet spread for the top four diners.

Maybe we risk being beguiled by the hype surrounding him, and allowing ourselves to believe that he really is a magician. He's not some McGyver type, capable of making a plane fly with the aid of a battery and a herring-bone. He's fallible. The Newcastle game was, to some extent, a shambles because of his tactics. Unless he thought that organising a shambles was a good method of learning and assessing.

When I watched the Man Yoo game last night I felt - more than the pleasure of seeing Ronaldo, a man practising his art at the peak of his powers - despondent. Despondent, because I felt I saw plainly the breadth of the gulf between where Spurs are now and where we purpose to be. Winning teams don't come as handy products in hermetically-sealed packages. They must be cultivated and nurtured over time. I struggle to be convinced how we can purchase 'off-the-peg' players from around the world, put them together and come up with an outfit suitable for a football party. Unless Ramos is in it for the long haul. It's a big 'unless', for many reasons.

Something else, too, in the aforementioned match made me despondent. It was seeing Ronaldo, at first attempt to dribble the ball around an opponent; lose the ball in a tackle; then race back like a cheetah to try to get it back. Is it really asking too much that our own talisman do the same?

9.37 Anon

jolsgonemental said...

the worst thing about getting beaten by Newcastle is having to listen to Keegan bang on about it.

i thought i had a lack of perspective.

EL said...

You put your finger on it 9.37anon

Dimitar is a luxury player in a team which can't currently afford him.

Winning 'that' trophy has camouflaged the fact that we spent £40 million last summer and went backwards.

The league doesn't lie.

Wendy's biggest task is to shake off that relentlessly clinging disease which we've suffered for far too long - inconsistency.

Ask yourself whether a player adds to this disease or not.

Hutton for example, I would argue not.

Berbatov I would argue does.

So logic tells me that unless our squad resembles that of manure or chelski by the end of this summer, Dimi has got to go.

But then the same logic would say; Jenas, Malbranque, Lennon, Thud, Zokora, Robinson, Cerny, Lee, Dawson, Rocha, Kaboul and Boateng must also make way. Not to mention that Assou-ekotto and Tainio aren't of sufficient ability.

Is Comolli up to the task?

Last summer would appear to be a clue. What the fcuk is HE doing at Spurs?

EL said...

Dear Mr Levy

I know you're an avid reader of this blog. Please feel free to answer my last question.

Anonymous said...

El said "Funny how we're all pretty much agreed that half this team isn't good enough, and yet it's these very players jol persuaded to finish 5th, twice running."

I was called an idiot yesterday for saying something similar. Fact is, Ramos has got some way to go yet to equal Jol's acheivements. It is also "funny" how one minute we were all behind BMJ and the next minute he's rubbish and JR is the new messiah. Now, obviously BMJ is not coming back and JR is a decent manager but JR's results have not been all that great, apart of course from the two crucial ones which got us the League Cup. The problem I am wrestling with is, how come Spurs have under-achieved so consistently since about 1991, despite God knows how many different players, managers, chairmen, you name it. It is a mystery. Something in the water in N17? I wish I knew but I do know that we are not out of the under-acheivement woods yet. And I am not convinced that bringing in a new batch of players (yet again) is the answer, to echo El's comment. And to those who keep going on about how far we are from being a "top 4" club, have you forgotten already that 2 years ago we spent a large part of the season in the top 4 and but for a dodgy tummy inspired wobble at the final fence, would indeed have finished in the top 4 and would therefore actually be a top 4 club?? As someone else said, league cup aside, we have a spent a fortune and gone backwards. So maybe Comolli is to blame. If only he'd been around since 1991 - then I'd have an answer to my problem.

Anonymous said...

El,

Both Mr Comolli and Mr Jenas have compromising photographs of me.

Regards, Daniel Levy

dannyboy said...

Berbatov or 3 - 4 £10 million world class team players? No brainer, isn't it?

As for Jenas, el, I believe he was ill last time out and was rested the game before that, to answer your question. I do hope we sign a no-nonsense, tough tackling midfielder to play alongside him next season; watch him flourish then. Jenas for captain I say; said it before as well. He can become a legend.

coys

BimitarDerbatov said...

ah come on now Dannyboy..

Anonymous said...

shut the fuck up and stop posting irrelevant and inconsequential shit. it bores the fuck out of me and you really need to get a life. get off the computer and get a job you loser

BimitarDerbatov said...

"get off the computer" typed the man at the computer..

Mysterious Stranger said...

I have been mentioning the "Berbastrop" phenomenon a while - but it seems clear to me his temperament is such that he will moan as opposed to encourage.

I am under no illusions as to the man's great talent. You'd have to be blind to not see it. But I think you would have to be blind too, not to recognise his detrimental "non-leadership" qualities. Aren't you supposed to lead by example? These traits may have appeared while the team has been going through a tough season, but Billy Ocean knew what he was talking about. "When the going gets tough, the tough get going". And I don't mean get going to another club. I mean get going for the club whose shirt they don week in, week out - not just for the "big games". Every game should be big.

9.37 Anon, you really talk a lot of sense. More praise for you, I´m afraid. The Ronaldo "chasing back" thing was priceless. He's worth three or four Berbatov's (and that's conservative) IMO. He hates losing, and is 100% committed to try and make sure he doesn't. Berbatov simply hates losing, but IMO is not prepared to work that much harder to avoid it.

Anon 10.07 sums up my feelings on both bimitar's opinion and I think the general view. In that you are biased.

This extract is again IMO without perspective...

"so WHY would we get rid of a world class player in order to bring in a world class player??

now i already know what peoples response to that question will be: we need to buy some quality midfielders..

that's fair enough.. the only problem being that we're now down a world class striker and anyone who thinks Darren Bent will replace Berb is really kidding themselves.."

First of all you answer the question (to a degree). You forgot to add bring in another striker to take his place. And don't forget - we bought Berbatov for 10.9 million GBP. And many people at the time were like, "who is this guy?". Did they think he was world class then? The jury was out at that point, I believe. If we sold him for 30 million GBP and buy another striker for a similar amount to what we paid for Berbatov that leaves us with around 20 million GBP - plus the cash Ramos has been promised, suggested at 40 million GBP - plus any other money from sales of other players to possibly add to the kitty. That is a lot of money, and can buy a lot of players. World class players, plural. Wingers, midfielders, goalkeepers, defenders? Whatever it takes to move the club forward, I say.

If we had decent wingers to service a player like Bent or Berba's (possible) replacement, perhaps we'd soon forget about Berbatov. Additionally it's a bit pointless and negative (the Berba way I guess ;-)) to throw in the "anyone who thinks Darren Bent will replace Berb is really kidding themselves" remark.

Sometimes you have to take a different view. It is clear you are not prepared to take such a view regarding Berbatov, and truly are viewing his presence in the team with rose-tinted specs.

dannyboy said:

"If we can get 30-40 mil for Berbatov, let's take it. The bloke is a moaner and sends out the wrong attitude to the rest of the team. 10 good games a season is not what legends are made of. How he can be called a legend is beyond me; is he as good as say Hoddle or Greaves? Erm, no. They were proper legends. Offload. Now."

el said:

"Dimitar is a luxury player in a team which can't currently afford him... Ask yourself whether a player adds to this disease or not.

Hutton for example, I would argue not.

Berbatov I would argue does."

jolsgonemental said:

"First kick up the arse should go to Dimitar Berbatov."

Make no mistake - I am a Tottenham Hotspur supporter and will be long after one Dimitar Berbatov has kicked his last ball for OUR team. Whether that is this season, or the next, or the one after that. And I want the best for OUR team, a team full of TEAM players working as hard as one another, players who are 100% committed to the common cause. If Ramos & Co. can get players in to change Berbatov's attitude and work ethic, then so be it. If he sells him in the window, then too, so be it. COYS!

BimitarDerbatov said...

i think, mysterious stranger, that no-one could possibly argue with your last post.. not even me!!

you've pretty much covered all angles there..

but i do have a few thoughts..

of course i'm looking through rose tinted spectacles...i accept that

however we can't assume that we will unearth another gem like Berba just because we have the money to do so..

if we were, hypathetically, to bring in no-one in the Summer and Berba was to leave..then we would be a weaker side for it..

i know that's neither here nor there but that's why i don't think we can take the chance of finding a player as good as he is (work-ethic aside)..

for example... if Berb leaves and if we were (again hypathetically) to bring in say Luis Fabiano or David Villa..and they flop in the English Premier League..where does that leave us??

the only thing i will say is that whoever does come in, we have a manager that will get the utmost out of him..

i can't wait for Summer!!

Jared said...

Though i agree mostly with what Mysterious Stranger is saying, nobody here seems to realise how much big dimi does. Forget about all his goals (20+ a season) and forget about all his assists (3rd most in the premiership). Every good move spurs make, every time we attack, EVERY SINGLE TIME WE LOOK THREATENING, Berbatov is involved.

I too tire of the tantrums, and the slow walks back from offside. I hate the moaning at misplaced passes and watching him sulk on his arse while the opposition charge at our goal. But for all that he is amazing to watch, he is our stand out player and nothing happens without his direct participation.

No player is perfect, and all these comparisons to Ronaldo and friends are pointless, he is not them and they are not him. He will never run the length of the pitch to make a crucial defensive block, he's not that guy. The hold up striker who scissor kicks a precise defence splitting through ball, that's Berbatov.

Instead of moaning about what we haven't got in a player, why don't we praise what we have got.The best player outside of the champions league? Without a doubt.

With a decent midfield behind him feeding him accurate passes, I shudder to think how great we could be.

I too watched the Man Utd - Roma game and felt sad, not because I saw the gulf between our two teams, but because I realised that if Berba played for Roma he'd be challenging Ronaldo for world player of the year. With team mates like that to create space for him, feed him and run off him.... Well maybe if Man Utd had Berba, the title would of been won by now.... and more then likely spurs would still be in the relegation dog fight.

Berba may not be perfect, but he is as close as we will be getting outside of the champions league.

jared said...

Sorry, meant to say if Berba played for man Utd not Roma. I'm sure you all got that though.

BimitarDerbatov said...

all valid points there jared...

speaking of Lane Legends...i reckon a couple of goals from Torres tonight and in the next few days would put him on a fast track to becoming just that!!

COME ON THE POOL!!

Mysterious Stranger said...

Oh here we go the fantasy link that is Torres. Been there, done that, too late. He'd cost as much as we'd get for Berba, possibly more. And not forgetting he didn't join us the previous two seasons we'd actually been linked with him. He went to Liverpool because of their legendary status as a massive club. Honestly, get a grip on reality for once, bimitar. And you can quote me as much as you like in the summer "when we do sign him". I'd wager heavily that we won't.

BimitarDerbatov said...

no i wasn't suggesting that we're signing him...of course we're not going to..

i was merely joking that should he help to vanquish Arsenal tonight, it would be much appreciated at the Lane..

my god mysterious stranger must you take issue with everything i say!? can't we just be friends!?

Myserious Stranger said...

You are right. Taken too literally... sorry. But other teams' players scoring against Arsenal, do not make Lane Legends IMO! That would make Kuyt a Lane Legend. I only consider players wearing our shirt in that category... ;-)

Please accept my apology :-)

BimitarDerbatov said...

accepted!!

EL said...

Re 19.00anon

If you must leave post-it notes to yourself about the place, could you use actual post-its, rather than this blog.

Cheers.

Anonymous said...

Can I provoke some further debate with you guys? With Taarabt quoted in some sources to be a possible start against Blackburn, do you think he is/or could be our 'Ronaldo'? Or Like Kaboul, going to be found out very quickly?

Anonymous said...

He will run at people all game, he may not get past them every time, people have to accept that, so as long as we have cover behind him, it's ok.
Plus there's no other player i know who can guarantee you a nutmeg every game.

EL said...

I'm not entirely convinced he hasn't already been found out.

Anonymous said...

On current form, i'd have him playing over Lennon.....

EL said...

On current form, I'd have the sword of Damocles over Lennon.